The Nine Circles of Bail

Mark Pilate wrote: I think we may need letter grades as well.  Not sure if this is an 8b or 9- but I’m sure others have also had that most frustrating of bails.....the absolute last minute bail — at the base of the objective!  You get all the way out to RMNP or Tetons, get your alpine start, hike Hours to base, perfect weather, start gearing up, and partner says “I’m not feeling it”...

They’re also not feeling a ride home!

I'd say this is allowed within reason for potentially sketchy alpine objectives. If someone's spidey sense tingles with respect to danger and they want out, you are allowed to gently push back, but if they're firm on it, attempt's over. It sucks, but people should be allowed to pull the plug when they don't feel safe.

However, a slightly aggravating variation of this is when the partner overestimated their abilities and is clearly just overwhelmed. Their right to bail is still enforced, as continuing could create a dangerous situation, but you are allowed to be annoyed with them in this case.

#9 and #3 have gone hand in hand at the base of the Diamond TWICE!
edit~ Wayne Crill was too fucked up to have a go at King of Swords one time so he "accidently" dropped his helmet off Broadway..

So the A-holes who dont show up and never give any explanation whatsoever?  Been a bunch of years since I've had this happen.

LIMBO or FRAUD?  or should they have a whole new level created for them?

Maidy wrote: So the A-holes who dont show up and never give any explanation whatsoever?  Been a bunch of years since I've had this happen.

LIMBO or FRAUD?  or should they have a whole new level created for them?

Perhaps they’re in Purgatorio instead of Inferno?

F r i t z wrote:

Perhaps they’re in Purgatorio instead of Inferno?

Nah, it was Ascension into Paradiso  (aka, boulderer learns about trad climbing and never looks back).  Be happy for those "flakes"

Dylan Colon wrote:

I'd say this is allowed within reason for potentially sketchy alpine objectives. If someone's spidey sense tingles with respect to danger and they want out, you are allowed to gently push back, but if they're firm on it, attempt's over. It sucks, but people should be allowed to pull the plug when they don't feel safe.

However, a slightly aggravating variation of this is when the partner overestimated their abilities and is clearly just overwhelmed. Their right to bail is still enforced, as continuing could create a dangerous situation, but you are allowed to be annoyed with them in this case.

Agree that there are legit variations, but they are based on an honest assessment of conditions and info not available at home or at the trailhead....such as deteriorated snow/ice conditions or weather, crowd at the base, etc

But when no such situation exists, and is not even in dispute, and in fact is screaming “go!”  Like perfect temps and weather and prime route conditions And having it all to yourselves.....It’s a descent into madness and hell - for all involved.    
 And I agree, after a reasonable level of coaxing and encouragement, the risk of moving forward with such a partner, even if you were able to brow beat them into submission, is not worth it.  

i generally have a good judgment of my different partners' likelihood of bailing. when i make plans with a certain person i adjust my expectations based on tone and history. my A1, always-solid partners have never bailed on me and that's why they're my first calls. your bailing score affects your ranking on the call list.

I’ve been bailed on for all the reasons listed- it sucks.

But I could of excused the person who used #2 excuse- I mean when ya “get lucky” for some people it’s a rare thing- but to not “drop a dime” on me (pre-cell) day’s and let me drive 210 miles starting at 3am..... you will be put on the “never again” list.

Fritz- good list. 

Mark Pilate wrote:

Agree that there are legit variations, but they are based on an honest assessment of conditions and info not available at home or at the trailhead....such as deteriorated snow/ice conditions or weather, crowd at the base, etc

I've had this happen multiple times, and I've also had inexperienced partners get spooked by what I'd consider a safe situation and request to go down. When that happens I have to check myself, because it was usually my dumb self that dragged them up there in the first place.

F r i t z wrote: Especially aggravating is when the bailer is either a vanlifer or a college kid on break who can climb any day of the week, and the bailee is a working stiff who can only climb on weekends.

Or if it’s professional climber who assumes she can just bail anytime and everyone will still love her because she’s famous.

Or someone who makes plans, and then goes out and overexerts themselves the day before with another partner and is suddenly too tired to follow through.

Maybe I’m just on my way to becoming a crusty childless trad-dad, but it seems like lot of my younger partners are exponentially more prone to bail than those who are 35+.

I’ve definitely noticed that people who can climb anytime are the worst at making definite plans to climb on a specific day/weekend. 

The people who say on Tuesday that they will “let me know on Thursday”, if they can go climbing on Friday... ugh! They have no commitments or obligations, and can leave at the moment’s notice. But not everyone can. 
I’m more flexible these days than I used to be, but I have learned to treat the “ill let you know on Thursday” responses as a “NO”, because that’s what they mean, most of the time. I have been surprised occasionally...

Haha good stuff Fritz! Let’s get out to the Black when it opens/when I get back in shape. No bailing!

I've mentioned this here before, but I've created a crag with all the names of the routes dedicated to excuses why someone bailed on climbing -- it's called Excuses Wall. The routes thus far:

Groin Irritation - A buddy bailed because he "irritated his groin running" the night before.

Hashtag Van Life - Dude bailed on climbing because he had to work on his van, man.

I Married My Partner - Asked a buddy if he was interested in an alpine objective; this was his response. Cool. 

Mark Pilate wrote: I think we may need letter grades as well.  Not sure if this is an 8b or 9- but I’m sure others have also had that most frustrating of bails.....the absolute last minute bail — at the base of the objective!  You get all the way out to RMNP or Tetons, get your alpine start, hike Hours to base, perfect weather, start gearing up, and partner says “I’m not feeling it”...

They’re also not feeling a ride home!

Holy shit have I been there

mills101 Mills wrote: I've mentioned this here before, but I've created a crag with all the names of the routes dedicated to excuses why someone bailed on climbing -- it's called Excuses Wall. The routes thus far:

Groin Irritation - A buddy bailed because he "irritated his groin running" the night before.

Hashtag Van Life - Dude bailed on climbing because he had to work on his van, man.

I Married My Partner - Asked a buddy if he was interested in an alpine objective; this was his response. Cool. 

I remember that thread; it was good! https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118046454/excuses-needed-for-excuses-walls

Tim N wrote: Haha good stuff Fritz! Let’s get out to the Black when it opens/when I get back in shape. No bailing!

Today was opening day! I’m camped below the [redacted] right now.  [Redacted] tomorrow, [redacted] next week.

Twas the night before the Black and all through the hut / Not a Cam’lot was stirring, not even a nut /
The gear sling was hung for the chimney with care / In hopes that St. Wiggins would soon be there.

The climbers were nestled all snug in their bags / With visions of trundle-blocks and heinous rope drag /
And stormclouds a-brewing and dropping the map / And settling to bivy for a long summer's nap