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Kole H
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May 8, 2020
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Denver
· Joined Jun 2019
· Points: 0
Hello, I am a high school senior living in Denver who is trying to get into trad climbing. I had saved up a ton of money to travel internationally this summer, but due to COVID I decided that my plans were probably out of the question and I ended up buying a pretty substantial trad rack. Unfortunately, I learned to climb at a local gym with some of my friends, and therefore am without a mentor. Despite my lack of a mentor, I still would really like to get into trad in a way that can still be educational and safe (or as safe as any sort of climbing can be). I have watched countless videos and practiced knots, placement, and some beginner self-rescue techniques on my own, as well as leading some short trad pitches well within my skill level (easy enough that there was little fear of falling). Are there any suggestions for somebody trying to learn on their own? any areas that may be worth checking out to work on placements/ easy leads? Ideally, I would be looking for a mentor but the situation suggests otherwise. Thank you for any advise!
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Taylor TBro Brown
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May 8, 2020
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Dumont, CO
· Joined May 2017
· Points: 75
When I first got into trad I went up to North Table with my rack in the middle of the week when there weren't a lot of people and just practiced placing loads of gear from the ground. I think it's a really good spot with a lot of cracks and variety of placements all while standing on the ground. Once you have the gear placed and inspect it, give it a few yanks, yard on it (be careful not to lodge a nut to far as to not be able to retrieve it) I also built tons of 3 piece anchors, helps to lean different ways to extend pieces and such. This would be my best bet in terms of learning alone in a safe way. Otherwise, finding someone to follow a ton of pitches is also super helpful. As you follow and clean gear, you can see how and where it was placed. I found when I was following early on my partner would place gear in spots I would have never looked or thought of. Hope this helps a little bit!!
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Jeff Dull
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May 8, 2020
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Elkhart, IN
· Joined Dec 2017
· Points: 10
Everything Taylor said. Step off the ground a foot or two and place gear from there. When I was learning, many years ago, I used to practice placing gear in the cracks in my driveway and sidewalk when I couldn't get to any rock. Have fun and be safe.
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Bill Lawry
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May 9, 2020
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Albuquerque, NM
· Joined Apr 2006
· Points: 1,821
Kole H writes: Are there any suggestions for somebody trying to learn on their own? any areas that may be worth checking out to work on placements/ easy leads? Ideally, I would be looking for a mentor but the situation suggests otherwise. Am not familiar with your area. But for learning placements and If you have a friend who knows how to give just a good top-rope belay, you may be able to significantly up your game without having someone with you who has trad experience. What I am thinking of is moving up a route while making placements and then aiding on them to continue that upward progress.
I realize doing so will require setting a top-rope anchor. And that sounds crazy since you are just learning about protection. Plus the person who provides the backup belay appears unlikely to be someone who can evaluate your top-rope anchor(s). Still, once you have selected a crag, a good top-rope belayer + a short static rope + some book learning + seeking evaluation of your top rope anchor might be enough.
Ideally, you'd find a top-rope crag that has easy / comfortable access to the top. For evaluation, you could spend a day just setting top-rope anchors and taking pictures of everything. Then you might post pictures here before you rely on them. From just seeing pictures, static rope around a tree is probably easiest to evaluate. Static rope around a nested boulder(s) may be less so. Gear anchors would be very difficult to evaluate from just a picture. Oh, and a thick skin might also help if posting here. ;)
And while aiding to make upward progress, and in case something fails, you are going to have to have an aiding sequence that allows you to always have any fall arrested by the rope of the backup belay, and not onto - say - a piece that is directly connected to your belay loop (dangerously harsh!).
P.S. One drawback to this plan is that you may place something that your don't have the experience or understanding to remove. Brush up on how different types of gear can get stuck. Hmmm,"How do various types of gear get stuck?" kind of sounds like it could be the title of a new thread on MP, perhaps in the beginner section.
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Adam Fleming
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May 9, 2020
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SLC
· Joined Jun 2015
· Points: 531
I agree with other people; placing gear on the ground is a great way to gain some practice. One issue I find with teaching yourself is that you don't always know if you're doing it wrong.
You said you saved a lot of money in order to travel. You could spend some of that money to hire a guide (if they're currently operating) and get some quality instruction. Everyone's relationship with their folks and financial situation is different, but your parents might be willing to contribute money towards climbing education as a graduation present (parents tend to like things like helmets and education). I know a few stellar guides on the front range and would be happy to give you a recommendation.
A mentor you trust is extremely valuable. Keep trying to find one. You can look here on MP, see if your area has youth climbing programs, facebook pages, etc. The front range has one of the largest concentrations of climbers; you'll be able to find someone eventually.
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topher donahue
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May 9, 2020
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Nederland, CO
· Joined Sep 2007
· Points: 210
"#3 The Illusion of Shiny Gear that is Industry Tested: Because climbing gear was made for rock climbing and tested for strength, we are led to believe that the gear will hold. These test, however, are only for material strength and give no indication of the strength of a placement. The real-life testing comes during the falls you may take on the gear placements on your lead, not in the lab. In your exact situation, the gear has not been tested..." - #3 of The Three Illusions of Trad Gear, from the Traditional Gear Placement chapter of Advanced Rock Climbing: Expert Skills and Techniques
From the same book: "...climbing gear can also create the dangerous illusion that it will hold. You go out the the crag armed with thousands of dollars worth of fascinating equipment. You surround your body with this gear like some sort of voodoo skirt to protect you against gravity. You stick some of the gear in the crack and go for it. It works much of the time, but there are many, many stores of climbers placing what they call a "textbook cam" and having it pull out - because, well, it wasn't."
As a beginner trad leader the very best investment you could make is to hire a guide for a day. Make sure they know you want a lead climbing course, not just an anchors course or something else. Ask to be sure they will actually let you lead during the course - some guide services do not. I suggest the Colorado Mountain School based in Estes Park.
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Bill Lawry
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May 9, 2020
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Albuquerque, NM
· Joined Apr 2006
· Points: 1,821
Hiring a guide for a day (or so), is a safe recommendation. And it may indeed provide valuable information at a critical juncture.
Still, it is simply not a comprehensive answer. Nothing probably is except for that ever illusive mentor.
I hired a guide for a day, years ago just a couple weeks before my first trad lead. It was confidence building. But it did little to fill in the many gaps with which we all start out.
Of course, YMMV.
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L Kap
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May 9, 2020
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Apr 2014
· Points: 224
Bill Lawry wrote: Am not familiar with your area. But for learning placements and If you have a friend who knows how to give just a good top-rope belay, you may be able to significantly up your game without having someone with you who has trad experience. What I am thinking of is moving up a route while making placements and then aiding on them to continue that upward progress.
This is a good idea, but unfortunately there are not a lot of places along the Front Range where it is possible to easily set a TR anchor and then lead the line on trad. The few places this exists are likely to be rather crowded. Even without Covid, having a bunch of more experienced climbers frustrated at you for camping on a line they want to climb is not fun.
The suggestion to go up to North Table when it's not busy and plug and tug on a lot of gear is a good one to start with. Placing solid gear and building good anchors is a critical, foundational skill. If you're going to bounce-test your placements (which some people do, but puts extra wear and tear on your gear and can make it more likely to get stuck), make sure to watch a safety video about the technique so you don't get hit in the face by flying gear.
Keep in mind that the micro-mechanics of placing gear and building anchors is just the beginning of the trad experience. The next level up is understanding the big picture of when to place gear and when / how to extend it, especially around cruxes, ledges, roofs, and traverses. New leaders make a lot of mistakes here. They run things out so far between pieces that if one piece failed they would deck on a ledge. They make a marginal placement before a crux with groundfall potential and don't back it up. They place a solid passive piece deep in a crack but then sling it too short so that it walks out. They don't extend before roofs or traverses and create heinous rope drag. They place a passive piece that is solid from the direction of approach, but it's shit once you traverse past it. They place a U-stem cam in a horizontal crack as part of an anchor, then hang on the anchor and bend the cam stem over the lip of the crack. They traverse a horizontal knife-edge arete then build an anchor on the other side of the arete, running their rope over the edge. They build an anchor in very pretty cracks in choss or sling a death block. They neglect to protect the beginning of a traverse for the follower. And on and on. These are the kinds of situations you learn from getting lots of mileage, ideally following an experienced partner, paying attention, and asking good questions.
Which leads me to...your two best bets for safely learning to lead are to hire a guide or make friends with someone who already enjoys leading easy trad and will mentor. Some guide services in our area are advertising about when they will resume services, and as you probably know, plenty of folks are still climbing. Pick your partners carefully and be safe out there.
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Bill Lawry
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May 9, 2020
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Albuquerque, NM
· Joined Apr 2006
· Points: 1,821
L Kap wrote: This is a good idea, but unfortunately there are not a lot of places along the Front Range where it is possible to easily set a TR anchor and then lead the line on trad. To clarify, this is not what I was describing. My emphasis was on using pieces to make upward progress to learn more about making placements. In other words, and in a safe way, check your placements with body weight, over and over, and not on the same type of placement or with the same type of gear. And, sure, on top rope, there may be some free climbing between placements on which to continue aiding. While my suggestion does not bring the kind of forces a lead fall will put on a piece, it will be much more informative than the practice that has been described so far for getting better at gear placements. More generally, I think the best advice is to from the beginning to assume you alone are responsible for your safety. Part of that is figuring out how to try new things out in a manner that you know is safe. I believe my suggestion fits that model with Kole - despite my not knowing of a suitable crag in that area. Still, that model can be used to address the many other things we both know are out there: the gaps, some of which you mention.
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L Kap
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May 9, 2020
·
Boulder, CO
· Joined Apr 2014
· Points: 224
Bill Lawry wrote: To clarify, this is not what I was describing. My emphasis was on using pieces to make upward progress to learn more about making placements. In other words, and in a safe way, check your placements with body weight, over and over, and not on the same type of placement or with the same type of gear. And, sure, on top rope, there may be some free climbing between placements on which to continue aiding. While my suggestion does not bring the kind of forces a lead fall will put on a piece, it will be much more informative than the practice that has been described so far for getting better at gear placements. More generally, I think the best advice is to from the beginning to assume you alone are responsible for your safety. Part of that is figuring out how to try new things out in a manner that you know is safe. I believe my suggestion fits that model with Kole - despite my not knowing of a suitable crag in that area. Still, that model can be used to address the many other things we both know are out there: the gaps, some of which you mention. Apologies if I was unclear. I think we are talking about the same thing. You are saying to set up a TR anchor, then while you are on a TR belay, you ascend the line and place trad gear for practice, bounce testing as you go - yes?
My main point was that there are not a lot of lines around here that have easy TR access to begin with. Of the few that exist, most are bolted and may not have many spots to place trad gear. The situation where you have walking access to the top of a cliff with trees or blocks at the top to build a TR anchor on is relatively rare here.
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Ryan Dresser
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May 9, 2020
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Mar 2017
· Points: 81
Unfortunately finding a mentor these days is tough. Get with a guide and spend a day (or more) learning from someone who can answer all the questions you have. Evergreen Wilderness Guides is a small outfitter based out of west Denver and they have affordable prices and great guides. *shameless plug*
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Bill Lawry
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May 9, 2020
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Albuquerque, NM
· Joined Apr 2006
· Points: 1,821
L Kap wrote: Apologies if I was unclear. I think we are talking about the same thing. You are saying to set up a TR anchor, then while you are on a TR belay, you ascend the line and place trad gear for practice, bounce testing as you go - yes? Was not thinking to bounce test, no. I do not believe I used any words that could be interpreted that way. I did warn against a process that would allow a fall directly on a piece - which would be an extreme form of bounce test I guess. And an edit in case I am misunderstood on another topic: It also was not my intent to suggest actually leading anything at this point - though Kole mentioned some early leads. I mean, until Kole has evidence-based confident in placements, any leads should be done as though fully free soloing (if one must), which seems to be the case for Kole. And one way to gain understanding and confidence, is to aid upward.
My main point was that there are not a lot of lines around here that have easy TR access to begin with. Of the few that exist, most are bolted and may not have many spots to place trad gear. The situation where you have walking access to the top of a cliff with trees or blocks at the top to build a TR anchor on is relatively rare here.
Sure. And, again, I’m at as disadvantage, not knowing the area. Still, for my posted intents, this could be done at a short-y crag that is not worthy of mentioning in a guide or on MP.
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Kole H
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May 10, 2020
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Denver
· Joined Jun 2019
· Points: 0
Thank you all for your helpful advice. I hope to be able to hire a guide when possible, and in the meanwhile I plan on going to north table on less busy days to practice placements from the ground. I might also try to place gear on top rope (not sure if I’ll bounce test them), to get the feeling of placing while climbing and the speed and precision necessary for that.
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Erik G
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May 10, 2020
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Denver, CO
· Joined Mar 2013
· Points: 35
I recommend checking out lookout mountain crag. Its reasonably short, has easily accessible 2 bolt anchors for topropes, and a few easy trad lines. A good exercise would be to do some laps on toprope while mock leading and placing gear. But after evaluating and removing your gear while lowering, remove every piece you used from your rack and go again. This forces creativity as you must use different pieces and different placements every lap.
Be mindful of directionals you may need to safely toprope (thinking of the 5.7 dihedral) as well any edges your toprope anchor may rub over.
Nothing beats a competent mentor, especially for larger picture stuff (like the stuff L Kap mentioned), but this is a good start.
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L Kap
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May 10, 2020
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Apr 2014
· Points: 224
Erik Gentile wrote: A good exercise would be to do some laps on toprope while mock leading and placing gear. But after evaluating and removing your gear while lowering, remove every piece you used from your rack and go again. This forces creativity as you must use different pieces and different placements every lap. ^This is a great idea.
Also, as you place each piece of gear, take a moment to think about what would happen if you fell onto the piece (or 5-10 feet above) and that piece failed. How far would you fail? What is the next piece that would catch you, and would there be a swing or ledge/ground fall? If so, what would you swing into or fall onto? This can help you learn to recognize what are the riskiest situations where you might consider backing up a "must not fail" placement with a second piece. Keep in mind that a horizontal swing ending in a slam into a solid object can carry as much force as falling on your side onto the ground.
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Charles Vernon
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May 11, 2020
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Colorado megalopolis
· Joined Jan 2001
· Points: 2,759
Another learning tool if you're competent leading sport routes: there are a bunch in the Front Range--particularly Boulder Canyon--that can take some gear. Bring a light rack and plug gear in between the bolts: you'll get a feel for gear placements, and worst-case scenario if you screw up the placement and fall on it and it blows, you'll have a bolt below that to catch you and will learn about what works and what doesn't. You'll get funny looks too, which is always a bonus. Despite the fact that I've been placing gear for a long time, I actually starting doing this a few years ago after my climbing time decreased due to having a kid, just so that when I actually do get to push myself on gear, I'm not too rusty.
Caveats: I'm not sure what grade you're climbing on bolts; any sort of fall can be bad on more moderate routes with lots of features to hit. Also, you won't necessarily learn a lot of the bigger-picture systems stuff that L Kap mentioned. But, it can be a piece of the puzzle.
Also agree with the many "hire a guide" recs--unless you stumble upon a mentor of gold.
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Mark Westfall
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May 11, 2020
·
Denver
· Joined Feb 2017
· Points: 0
I learned to trad climb when I was a senior in high school. I am mostly self taught, that's not to say I didn't have a few mentors along the way. It's important to climb with people who have experience to reinforce what you're learning.
With that being said, don't be afraid to go off on your own and have your own adventures! Buy the Eldorado Canyon guide book and slowly start working your way through the grades. Just make sure that the routes you're doing aren't a serious departure from your previous experiences.
Here are some great routes to get your feet wet: - The bomb 5.4 (wind tower)
- Calypso 5.6 (wind tower)
- Tigger 5.5 (wind tower)
- Wind Ridge 5.6 (wind tower)
- West overhang 5.7 (wind tower)
- Bastille Crack 5.7 (Bastille)
- Werks supp 5.8 (Bastille)
- Rewritten 5.7 (Redgarden)
- Long John wall 5.8 (West Ridge)
- The bulge 5.7 (Redgarden)
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Sam Chalkley
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May 11, 2020
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Denver, CO
· Joined Jul 2018
· Points: 316
- The bomb 5.4 (wind tower)
- Calypso 5.6 (wind tower)
- Tigger 5.5 (wind tower)
- Wind Ridge 5.6 (wind tower)
- West overhang 5.7 (wind tower)
- Bastille Crack 5.7 (Bastille)
- Werks supp 5.8 (Bastille)
- Rewritten 5.7 (Redgarden)
- Long John wall 5.8 (West Ridge)
- The bulge 5.7 (Redgarden)
The routes in bold from Mr. Danger are guaranteed to have a major pucker factor for a new leader.
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Tim Stich
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May 11, 2020
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
· Joined Jan 2001
· Points: 1,516
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Mark Westfall
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May 11, 2020
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Denver
· Joined Feb 2017
· Points: 0
Sam Chalkley wrote:- The bomb 5.4 (wind tower)
- Calypso 5.6 (wind tower)
- Tigger 5.5 (wind tower)
- Wind Ridge 5.6 (wind tower)
- West overhang 5.7 (wind tower)
- Bastille Crack 5.7 (Bastille)
- Werks supp 5.8 (Bastille)
- Rewritten 5.7 (Redgarden)
- Long John wall 5.8 (West Ridge)
- The bulge 5.7 (Redgarden)
The routes in bold from Mr. Danger are guaranteed to have a major pucker factor for a new leader. That was more or less my first 10 routes in eldo. Some may be a little spicy but not recklessly dangerous. Except for the bulge, that is why it as the end of the list.
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Richard Vogt
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May 11, 2020
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Myrtle Beach, SC
· Joined May 2017
· Points: 63
I probably climbed for 10 years before I learned how to properly place cams. I regularly placed them under-cammed, as I didn't want to lose any. It's so worth it to buy a book or watch a video on how to properly place your gear and then go practice. I also highly recommend hiring a guide who can demonstrate the proper technique as well as evaluate your gear skills. You'll learn more than you can absorb in a day. Maybe bring a small notebook. Also, your first piece of gear should be able to withstand an upward pull. Place directionals for roofs and traverses as well. Have fun, take it slow, and be safe.
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