Climbing Am I The Asshole (Hypothetical)

#justsportclimberthings

I think we need comprehensive stats about how many people have died from climbing on other peoples' ropes since they didn't know their history and were probably riddled with core shots, microfractures, cat pee, and covid19.

I have been The Asshole leaving rope for my partner to TR on on many occasions. Usually it is one of the easier routes at a crag, mostly used for warmups. I always leave my QDs hanging on it.  

My usual spiel is the following - "If you guys want to climb this route, you are welcome to it. It is currently setup for TR with dedicated TR anchors with lockers with an extra QD at the anchors. You are welcome to climb on my rope. If you don't want to TR, you are welcome to pull my rope. I would appreciate you leading on my rope. Keep in mind that the lockers at the anchor are locked, but there is extra QD at the anchors.

When this happens at a crag were routes are way above 5.9, not a single climber has a problem with leading on my rope or using my gear. The tihs show always happens at the crags with easier routes. I am most impressed by an aspiring climber clipping his own QDs next to my QDs into same hangers because a very experienced and advanced climber told them not to trust anyone's gear.

Reverse situation: my partner leads a route on his rope, lowers off like a good sport climber. I want to follow it but I also want to lead the neighboring route. So when its my turn I lead the 2nd route on my rope, and lower off. We now have two ropes hanging and its my partner's turn to climb. So he take a TR on my rig. While he's climbing, another party approaches and one person specifically asks if they can take a TR on the first rope, my partner's rope.

I say yes, speaking as if it were my rope. The guy ties in and starts up. Meanwhile my buddy lowers off. As be lowers down past the other climber, words are exchanged but I can't quite hear. When partner reaches ground, I get an earful about "the presumptive SOB who's top roping on MY ROPE!" I admit to giving permission and then get a lecture on the cost of a good lead rope. Partner makes it clear to me that I do not have permission to let others use his rope.

Ok then. He was irritated but not angry, per se. I told him he was fully within his rope owner rights to deny the use of that rope to others and  I would not lend his rope out anymore.

What he wanted me to answer, and mind you after this incident this is how I did answer: "No, that's my partner's rope and he doesn't want anyone else TRing on it. Says that prematurely wears it out. (He's right, of course). I can pull the rope if you want to lead it? No? Well if you want to TR it I'm going to climb it here in just a few mins so I can bring your rope up and then rap or lower on it, will that work?"

And it does work, just fine. No pushback at all.

We are all the asshole on this blessed day.

Shawn Adrian wrote: I am so glad I left Colorado!

If there isn't someone standing nearby getting a harness on to climb, tell them to go fuck themselves and yank their rope.  That is an utterly douche Colorfornia move to bogart routes like that.

But, brah, this is all the more reason to start buying cams and take up trad climbing!

i'm glad you left Colorado too...

Sometimes people are weird, especially at crowded sport areas. A while ago my wife was projecting a route and left her draws on it. We were coming to the end of our day, and she was going to give it one more go and pull her draws. In the meantime she was belaying me on a nearby route. A party came by while I was climbing and asked about our draws. My wife responded that they were hers, and that they can run the route on them, but also that she’ll be pulling her draws once I was done, so some expediency would be appreciated. I finished my route (after much hangdogging), cleaned it and lowered. The other party was still dicking around the base, without even a rope out. When my wife tied in, the dude of the other party mumbled about how leaving draws on a route was bad form, and they stormed off in a huff to another wall. My wife tied in, sent, stripped the route, and we went home.
Not really the same issue, but sharing and compromise make for a nicer experience for all. 

The fact that you're coming here to ask this question answers the question: you're not. A righteous true asshole wouldn't care what anybody else thought. It's part of the job description.

Depends on the condition of the rope but more than likely I would be psyched to climb on the other guys rope: one, less wear on mine, and two, his rope would probably be in better condition than mine.

The question one should be asking is: did you bolt the route or in any way contribute to the development of the route/crag?

If the answer is no, then may I suggest you STFU and be thankful that someone else did?

1Eric Rhicard wrote: They are willing (as they should be) to let you lead it. Use your rope and haul theirs up. Everybody wins. If you don't want to use haul two ropes go in straight  drop an end and haul it up. You could also tape it to yours then it will head go up as you lower off. You could also Lower off then tape it to the leaders end and haul it back through. Not sure why you are so worried about using their rope unless you are climbing now where Covid may or may not be a real fear. Make it work for everyone people. It isn't that hard. 

Yup. Pulling up their rope tied to yours is the best method to solve the OPs specific issues. That way you’re using your own rope but preserving the top rope.

reboot wrote: The question one should be asking is: did you bolt the route or in any way contribute to the development of the route/crag?

If the answer is no, then may I suggest you STFU and be thankful that someone else did?

Award for the dumbest take on the situation.

BROsenthal wrote:

Award for the dumbest take on the situation.

I suppose it's too hard for someone like you to understand how to share something nicely made possible by other people's outright contribution.

reboot wrote:

I suppose it's too hard for someone like you to understand how to share something nicely made possible by other people's outright contribution.

Maybe I missed your point. Are you arguing that people who develop routes should be getting special treatment? 

curt86iroc wrote:

Maybe I missed your point. Are you arguing that people who develop routes should be getting special treatment? 

I'm saying if you are just a user, you are standing on pretty shaky ground to criticize others for not sharing fairly. You like to use your own rope/draws? Well, how about you also bolt w/ your hardware? You don't like others to use your rope/draws? How about don't climb on other's routes? You think somebody's hoarding a route/crag? Well, how about you go develop a new one to disperse the crowd?

This ain't the gym where you paid for your use of the facility. The land maybe public but the routes you're climbing on weren't developed w/ public $$.

No one “owns” routes on public land, even if they did spend time and money to develop it.

please don't bolt rts on public land to " disperse the crowd"

You are both assholes. If I have a few TRs set up at a crag and another party comes by, I tell them: " Hey, if you want to get on any of these routes feel free to pull my rope. You can also TR on my line if you want." I dont ask them to trail my rope or lead on it. But if the situation were reversed I would gladly lead on someone else's rope. 

Share the space.

That lead may have been really hard for them and they are Gumby shit shows like we all were or still are at some point. It may take them forever to get someone off of one climb and on to the other.

If they claimed ownership of the line and didn’t want you climbing it at all, that would be lame af. In that case still better to just tell them why they are wrong and then move on to somewhere else.

In your hypothetical they aren’t doing that though. They are trying to share. Pull their rope, flake it and then you may know if you wanna lead on it or not. If not trail their rope up with you like everyone has said. Easy. Sharing public spaces for the win!

It seems like in many cases the more experienced party brings as much unnecessary confrontation to these situations as the group of gumbies can. Knowing you are “right” and someone else is “wrong” can be a tough battle with the ego.

There are also people who seem to prefer just being angry.

Earlier this year I was guiding for a scout group. I went out early to set up, and my partner was going to greet the clients and walk them in.

So yeah, I was that guy who went to the beginner-friendly crag with a short approach and hung a bunch of ropes on 5.6 and 5.7 routes. I get that it's annoying. It's irritated the hell out of me when I've been on the other end. But when you have a large group, that's what you have to do. When possible, I'll avoid putting a rope on a classic, but sometimes the group is too large.

Our company's policy is that if we're not actively on the routes, you can TR on our ropes or you can pull our rope and lead on your own gear. Usually, people are very happy for that.

So I was sitting there waiting for the group when this guy and his girlfriend show up. Immediately, and before he saw me, the guy started in with "Are you fucking kidding me?" The girlfriend remarked that it was cool that someone was taking beginners out, and he replied that it wasn't cool at all.

As I said, I get that. I've been there.

So I walked over and told them I wasn't expecting the group for another 45 minutes or so and that they were welcome to climb on our ropes or lead on their own gear. The GF was happy about that and thanked me; the BF just sulked and muttered in that passive-aggressive way that's just loud enough for you to hear but not aimed directly at you. I told them that a nearby classic was open, and they went and climbed that. Later, they passed us by while our group was out, and the guy had the same pissy look on his face.

Why he refused to climb the routes before our group arrived and I was the only other one there is beyond me. It seemed being mad was more important to him than climbing was. If I had told him it was too bad and that he couldn't climb the routes, it would have been a very different story. But he just chose to be whiny. It almost seemed like a show he was putting on for his GF; it wouldn't be the first time I've witnessed posturing like that in the presence of another male perceived as more experienced.