Thinking about my first rack

First of all, I have read past threads about this, but I wanted to ask anyway from my particular POV.  Any help appreciated!
I have been focusing more on trad and have begun to think about building a rack.  I have been using other people's gear and might want to start getting some of my own.  My main questions are about cams, especially considering some of the new stuff available
I will mostly be climbing in the northeast/New England, and am looking for reliability and durability, more than weight or cost savings
I was looking at C4s as that is what I have mostly been using, and they are available across a very wide range of sizes.  Alternatively, a combination of smaller Z4s and larger Ultralights could make sense. Finally, some people rave about Totems, although I have never used them, and they are available across a wide range of sizes (although not as wide as C4s)
So - Option 1, 2, or 3?
Or a wildcard I haven't thought of???
THANKS!!!

Mastercams are the cheapest and are pretty darn good. Also the lightest besides TCU’s but I don’t like those.

What you should do is get one brand’s full size range, and then get an inbetween size from a different brand.

For example, get C4’s and supplement with totems, master cams or wild country as those three are all about a half size different than C4’s.
For cams size around BD .5 (purple) and below the width of the axle makes a difference, so get the z4’s, mastercams or totems definitely.

You said weight doesn’t matter to you much, but a lighter rack does help the send no matter what anyone says. Gravity, man... anyway. Get an Ultralight #4 as it’s quite the weight savings. The #3 also if you want. Maybe the 2 in the future.

Keep in mind, carabiners are one of the biggest weight savings on a rack so choose wisely something that is cheap, light, easily replaceable.

Consider color coordinating early on if it matters to you.

Wild Country Superlight Offset rocks are pretty much the best stoppers I’ve ever used and they weigh half as much as regulars.

Alex Fletcher wrote: Mastercams are the cheapest and are pretty darn good. Also the lightest besides TCU’s but I don’t like those.

What you should do is get one brand’s full size range, and then get an inbetween size from a different brand.

For example, get C4’s and supplement with totems, master cams or wild country as those three are all about a half size different than C4’s.
For cams size around BD .5 (purple) and below the width of the axle makes a difference, so get the z4’s, mastercams or totems definitely.

You said weight doesn’t matter to you much, but a lighter rack does help the send no matter what anyone says. Gravity, man... anyway. Get an Ultralight #4 as it’s quite the weight savings. The #3 also if you want. Maybe the 2 in the future.

Keep in mind, carabiners are one of the biggest weight savings on a rack so choose wisely something that is cheap, light, easily replaceable.

Consider color coordinating early on if it matters to you.

Wild Country Superlight Offset rocks are pretty much the best stoppers I’ve ever used and they weigh half as much as regulars.

Thanks!  Very helpful indeed

"For cams size around BD .5 (purple) and below the width of the axle makes a difference, so get the z4’s, mastercams or totems definitely."
So you are saying that even though C4s go smaller (0.3 and 0.4) the Z4s etc are better in that size range?

"Consider color coordinating early on if it matters to you."
I am color blind...

Yes, I am saying that z4’s or similar would be better than .3, .4, .5, and (even) the .75 C4’s. The wideness of C4’s in the smaller sizes prevents some placements and narrower cams help to fix that problem. 

I think for the most part I am echoing Alex...

I would start with a set of C4s or something that follows the same sizing (dragons or friends) and suppliment from there. C4s are sort of the standard, so it will likely be easier to share or combine with friends gear. From there its basically all personal preference.

I like C4s for size 0.75 and up. 0.5 and below I definitely like a narrower head with a bit more flexibility. 

Cams on my typical double rack look something like: 2x(0.75-3 C4), 1x(#4 C4), 1x(blue - red totem basic), 1x(blue-red mastercams). If it looks thin or there are a lot of horizontals I will also rack up a set of C3s.

It’s a matter of personal preference. They’re all fairly good quality wise. When you actually need to start buying a rack, you’ll know exactly what you want. 

So there's the "big three," which are pretty much interchangeable and use the same color scheme:

C4s: Most durable sling, narrowest lobes, anodized lobe surfaces grip a little less well. Most common cams (ultralights trade 25% of the weight for a less durable sling and a built-in expiry date).

Friends: Widest lobes of the three, lightest of the three (excluding ultralights), extendable slings which may kink the thumb loop, sizes run slightly larger than C4s. Less commonly seen.

Dragons: Sturdy, good extendable slings, no thumb loop, heaviest of the three. Sizes run a hair smaller than C4s.

For what it's worth I went with friends as my primary cams and I have no complaints. Would definitely recommend switching brands when you go to get doubles for the size overlap, and Z4s for the .3-.75 sizes.

I agree with everyone else on C4s for .75 and up, and something different below that. I actually find myself wanting a smaller head width in my .75 cams for my local area, so I prefer a totem/Z4 in that size as well.
I recently built my ideal double rack out for a friend who wanted to buy a rack and it looked like this. IMO this is the best combination of gear for my local area, and its something that I would feel comfortable traveling anywhere with. Keep in mind this is alot of gear and you don’t need to buy it all at once, so buy what you can, keep climbing with friends with  supplemental gear and add on as you go.

Thoughts from a fellow Boston/New England climber: C4s are gold standard in mid to large sizes for a reason - stick with those. For smaller cams (below 0.75) I have a mix of mastercams and aliens, and have recently added totems after seeing their sticking power on aid. Totems are specialty pieces imo and a newer trad climber would do better with bread and butter cams with a narrower head than small C4s. Mastercams, Z or X4s, and Aliens are perfect for this. I also have larger aliens (0.75, 1 C4 size) since I find their narrow head great in the shallow placements that funky NH granite sometimes has.

Thanks everyone!
So then the questions I am still left with are:
1. How low do you go?  In my experience thus far, I haven't placed many cams smaller than 0.3 or so, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be/don't need to get them
2. With the cams at the lower end of the C4 scale that are covered by others (e.g. 0.3, 0.4, and 0.5) is it better to go with C4s, Z4s, something else, or a mix?

Josh Rappoport wrote:
1. How low do you go?  In my experience thus far, I haven't placed many cams smaller than 0.3 or so, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be/don't need to get them
2. With the cams at the lower end of the C4 scale that are covered by others (e.g. 0.3, 0.4, and 0.5) is it better to go with C4s, Z4s, something else, or a mix?

1. In general, I try not to get stuff unless I can see an obvious need for it.  So, if you haven't been finding places where you want something smaller than 0.3, hold off on that.

2.  I've liked having different very small cams.  All my cams above 0.5 are C4.  I have a 0,1, and 2 UL Mastercam; black and blue totems; and  0.3, 0.4 and 0.5 C4.  This has been a really nice set for me and I have liked having some variation because smaller placements seem kinda fiddly to me, whearas the larger placements have a lot more latitude in sizes.

Agreed that below 0.2 is specialized - I overlap mastercams/aliens up to 0.75 and C4s down to 0.5 (one of each for a double rack).

I would get:

Z4's from .3 to .75

C4's from 1 to 3

Consider getting the black totem (sized between a .2 and a .3) 

This keeps the sizes uniformly color coated. The narrower heads on the Z4's (or equivalent) means they fit in more placements. From size 1 and up this really doesn't matter much. 

Fill in doubles (.75 & 1 first), microcams, and tweener sizes over the next bunch of years as you find a need for them. 

BD cams go on sale often.  

What, you aren't going to buy a bunch of outdated U-stem Camalots and mix them up with a mishmash of booty cams? How else will you discover how little you like old Trango cams with the floppy stems? How else will you find out how terrible rigid Friends are? And how about that rack of Tricams you will be handed by a friend who hasn't used them in years? Or, you can peruse the used gear at your local consignment store and pick up some hexes. Where's the fun in buying the best gear for your first rack?

OMG. You might actually enjoy your first lead with it.

Small cams below 0.3 and micro offset nuts like Peenuts are an absolute necessity for me. Can make the difference in topping out or bailing. But you don’t use them much until you start pushing into the 12’s. 

Another weekly “first rack” thread, just waiting for the latest “TR solo” thread now. (Sorry if this is rude) 

Honestly, all of the cams mentioned in this thread are fine. I cant imagine you truly regretting your decision. Ill just add a voice of dissent regarding doubles. I hate climbing on racks that have mix and match gear. Just buy doubles of whatever cam you pick. I can count on one hand the times that i have had to run it out because i was missing the ONLY size cam that would fit in the area that I felt that i needed a piece of gear.

The convenience of having all matching gear outweighs the benefits of having overlapping cam ranges in my opinion. 

Dylan Pike wrote: Honestly, all of the cams mentioned in this thread are fine. I cant imagine you truly regretting your decision. Ill just add a voice of dissent regarding doubles. I hate climbing on racks that have mix and match gear. Just buy doubles of whatever cam you pick. I can count on one hand the times that i have had to run it out because i was missing the ONLY size cam that would fit in the area that I felt that i needed a piece of gear.

The convenience of having all matching gear outweighs the benefits of having overlapping cam ranges in my opinion. 

I disagree. We all have our opinions though. Just rack with the same color biner and problems solved.

Ma Ja wrote:

Just rack with the same color biner and problems solved.

This is what I do with my C3's (C3's are all one color off. Yellow C3 is a double for my blue .3 C4, Red C3 is actually a .2 and should be yellow, etc). 

It works well for me and the pronounced difference in sling color after the racking biner actually makes identifying that individual piece easier. All my racking biners (nano 22's) follow the BD color/sizing scheme and equivalent sizes/colors of gear are clipped to the appropriate BD colored biner. 

Agree with a lot of the above.

I've never liked C4s at BD size .5 or below, too wide. When my friends try to put theirs on the rack I take them off and replace with Aliens, TCUs, Totems, etc.

.75 use to be the size I'd start with C4s. .75 aliens were too floppy, TCUs walk too much. But now X4s or Totems may be a little better in that size.

Small cams can be any of: aliens, totems, mastercams, dragonflies, Z4s, etc.. #1 Personal preference. #2 Buy what's on sale / good value. TCUs are kinda obsolete with all the Alien inspired designs. I start with a .2 size for free climbing. As mentioned mix two brands for doubles because sometimes one fits better.

There's some differences in size/range, but I wouldn't say the other brands are 1/2 size different from BD. There's many charts online that compare ranges.

Totems are a significantly different design than other cams. Like when Aliens first came out, they are both very innovative. Totems apply the camming action through a cable directly attached to the cam lobes, vs. through the axle like all other cams. So they are significantly better in flares (since each side can work independently). They are the most bulky, and typically the most expensive, so there's a trade off. They mostly match BD sizes and colors. The Black and Yellow Totems are different colors. I like how totems sizes are the ideal placement size (aka reference size) in inches (which is funny because they are a Spanish company and you'd think they'd use centimetres). e.g. a .5 black totem's ideal placement is a .5" crack. A 1.5 red totem is for a 1.5" hand crack (BD calls this a #1 Red).

I posted similar advice in the last one of these threads as a half-joke, but the more I think about it, the more I think its actually an ok idea given some considerations:

If you have consistent climbing partners with a double rack of their own, buy BD 4 and up, as big as you can afford. Having a quad rack from .3-3 is not especially helpful for most routes, especially when you are first getting into trad climbing. It is nice later on for more specialty routes (i.e. Indian Creek, Outer Limits, etc) or big walls. Instead,  having big gear early on will get you tons more partners and open up a lot of routes, even easy ones, because you can actually protect the wide stuff where it would normally be a run out.

Just a consideration.

Also, I do not know much about the trad in your neck of the woods, so if OW is not as necessary as in places like Yosemite and Squamish, ignore me. Maybe ignore me regardless.