Coronavirus on a crag that is in the sun

Laurie Mathis wrote:

It also seems that the experts in states and areas that did not shut down their economies nor implement stay at home orders nailed it, too, as their healthcare systems were not stressed beyond their limits, either. They had the additional benefits of not losing jobs / businesses and maintaining basic freedoms.

It's not the experts, its the governments that decide. Even the states that do not have a specific stay-at-home order by name, there are big efforts in these states, such as schools canceled, large gatherings prohibited. The republican governors (coincidentally all the states that have control efforts, but don't call them stay-at-home orders) have at least done something. But a lot of them aren't doing so well. It is obvious now that NY, CA, WA, MA, NJ should have done more, and sooner. Turns out there were a lot more unidentified infections way (weeks/months) before anyone knew it. No one really to blame, it is a sneaky pathogen. So NY shut down when there were hundreds/thousands of unknown infections, but relatively few identified. Other states shut down or implemented measures when there were a few known cases, and there were probably only a few unknowns. They are faring better. Of course population density, travel, and other things play a big role. The distancing measures are working it seems.

Alejandro T wrote: AFAIK (not a virologist) the influenza virus' coating degrades faster in warmer temperatures, therefore it spreads more during the winter months in the northern hemisphere. Doesn't mean you can't get it in july. How is this relevant?

You win a point.  There are 3 or 4 more points to win.   Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

Bueller here. The governors of some states, such as California and Washington, are doing irreparable damage to the economies by keeping businesses closed.

They talk about plans to reopen. They are assembling "teams" to formulate these plans.

What they are doing is stalling. Too afraid to take the risk of reopening, so they take no action. Bold.

It's not hurting their personal finances, so they can play it safe by risking other people's finances.

And to top it off, these states are going to go crying to the federal government for loans or bailouts, since they didn't get enough tax revenue from closed businesses.

Hey California, where's the rainy day funds? No reserves?

Can I win a point for that, John?

Dave K wrote:

Yeah Frank, they should be like the president. 

He's not afraid to risk other people's lives.

You're a good soldier, Dave. Don't question anything and obey.  

Dave K wrote:

I'm going to respect sensible laws that benefit everyone. I'm sorry that it triggers you when people do that, but your hysterics are not going to change my mind.

Funny how you label disagreement as "triggered" and "hysterical." If that makes you feel better, so be it.  I'm not trying to change your mind.

I think I figured it out. You can't accept that people may view something differently. It is always a right or wrong thing, huh? And you have to prove the other person is wrong. Yeah, that's it.

Signed,

Triggered and Hysterical.

Edit: I will probably hit my post limit soon, so I may have to stop trading love letters with you

Just before stay at home orders went in place I remember they were projecting about 400,000 or more deaths if not doing social distancing etc and about 100,000 with. We’re currently at 60,000 so those numbers may have been pretty good.

Was the economic impact of saving 300,000 lives worth it? If 300,000 more died there’s be a huge economic cost of that, as well. I don’t know how that compares to the shut down cost. There’s also the human cost. What’s the dollar amount for losing 300,000 loved ones? How many lives will be lost due to a poor economy due to the shutdowns  (lack of medical insurance due to laid off, suicide, etc.). There’s lots of big questions and not a lot of answers. So I don’t pretend to know when we should open back up and what the costs are.

And of course government on both sides is being reactionary, not up to doing the hard analysis needed, and fearful of repercussions. That’s how governments have always worked. 

FrankPS wrote: Bueller here. The governors of some states, such as California and Washington, are doing irreparable damage to the economies by keeping businesses closed.

They talk about plans to reopen. They are assembling "teams" to formulate these plans.

What they are doing is stalling. Too afraid to take the risk of reopening, so they take no action. Bold.

It's not hurting their personal finances, so they can play it safe by risking other people's finances.

And to top it off, these states are going to go crying to the federal government for loans or bailouts, since they didn't get enough tax revenue from closed businesses.

Hey California, where's the rainy day funds? No reserves?

Can I win a point for that, John?

There are coherent plans in both states to reopen, least of which start next week. 

Come on Frank, you’re better than this.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

Ted Pinson wrote: https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

Cool. Even MDs with no specialty in this have it whupped. I thought it was just every internet expert, lol! Internet experts...like me! Buckle up, assholes.

That guy’s strategy looks like a big roll of the dice till we have many more elements effectively rolled out and premises proven. It reads like his stock portfolio got hit hard and he doesn’t interact directly with patients. Brave. Achieving herd immunity (that hasn’t been proven for COVID) in a way that doesn’t stack up a whole shit ton of bodies and shut down healthcare is going to be way more of a dance than dumbasses dressed in soldier costumes can imagine. But maybe they can shoot the vid? That’d be awesome, fake soldier guys! Do us a solid for a change, Big Truck.

We’ve come too far to fuck this up going floodgate dummy-style like MI militia cry for. A more survivable reality will be a new normal, like having a man toddler POTUS except with face masks and social distancing. If you want to go to a Trump rally and scream your head off, flinging off the spittle, I guess that’s just your old freedom bone acting up.

I don’t know how some people get “no big deal” out of the number of deaths we’ve seen in the face of the measures we’ve taken. I work directly with COVID + patients and I’m beyond ecstatic we’ve not seen what NYC has experienced. Wait till the flu and COVID line up in Fall/Winter though, they only overlapped a little this season. Can you say system overload?

That’s my big whoopty-fuckin-doo opinion anyway. I’m not enjoying this shit, hope you’re all as safe as you want to be. 

Edit: I read more about the much-touted “herd immunity”. Doesn’t sound great, Big Truck, you gotta hefty 1-2 million you gon’ have to get the back hoe out for. Not a good option until we have a vaccine. But go out and stand your ground, don’t shoot until you see the whites of their teeth.

I'm probably going to regret this. But there is so much BS/misinformation out there. A good article on why this is, and how much we don't know, should be read by all (IMHO). My general advice would be, if someone claims they know "the answers" about any of this, they almost certainly don't. The exception would be those who state what they don't know, provide evidence that they really are experts, and back up their answers with solid references (I originally wrote this calling out a name in each category. I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader). 

Alistair Veitch wrote: I'm probably going to regret this. But there is so much BS/misinformation out there. A good article on why this is, and how much we don't know, should be read by all (IMHO). My general advice would be, if someone claims they know "the answers" about any of this, they almost certainly don't. The exception would be those who state what they don't know, provide evidence that they really are experts, and back up their answers with solid references (I originally wrote this calling out a name in each category. I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader).

That’s true, but I’m almost positive you can shoot the virus.

Honey, I shrank myself and my AR-15 and bagged me a whole mess of Rona!

Colonel Mustard wrote:If you want to go to a Trump rally and scream your head off, flinging off the spittle, I guess that’s just your old freedom bone acting up.

Most of the 'scream your head off, flinging off the spittle' has been coming from the left over the past four years. CNN, MSNBC, AOC and the like have turned otherwise normal people into raging lunatics. They have had a monopoly on hate and don't like to see their opponents copy their antics.

Laurie Mathis wrote:

Most of the 'scream your head off, flinging off the spittle' has been coming from the left over the past four years. CNN, MSNBC, AOC and the like have turned otherwise normal people into raging lunatics. They have had a monopoly on hate and don't like to see their opponents copy their antics.

"I know you are, but what am I" LOL.

Laurie Mathis wrote:

Most of the 'scream your head off, flinging off the spittle' has been coming from the left over the past four years. CNN, MSNBC, AOC and the like have turned otherwise normal people into raging lunatics. They have had a monopoly on hate and don't like to see their opponents copy their antics.

I’m talking about literal disease transmission. Droplets. Idiots protesting disease mitigating restrictions by huddling together and showering each other in virus. But, yeah, we’re all partisan as fuck and view the other side as out of hand, blah, blah, blah....

Laurie Mathis wrote:

Most of the 'scream your head off, flinging off the spittle' has been coming from the left over the past four years. CNN, MSNBC, AOC and the like have turned otherwise normal people into raging lunatics. They have had a monopoly on hate and don't like to see their opponents copy their antics.

Yeah.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000004533191/unfiltered-voices-from-donald-trumps-crowds.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFc7wiI8X2E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOOY6pvpWJg

Colonel Mustard wrote:

Cool. Even MDs with no specialty in this have it whupped. I thought it was just every internet expert, lol! Internet experts...like me! Buckle up, assholes.

That guy’s strategy looks like a big roll of the dice till we have many more elements effectively rolled out and premises proven. It reads like his stock portfolio got hit hard and he doesn’t interact directly with patients. Brave. Achieving herd immunity (that hasn’t been proven for COVID) in a way that doesn’t stack up a whole shit ton of bodies and shut down healthcare is going to be way more of a dance than dumbasses dressed in soldier costumes can imagine. But maybe they can shoot the vid? That’d be awesome, fake soldier guys! Do us a solid for a change, Big Truck.

We’ve come too far to fuck this up going floodgate dummy-style like MI militia cry for. A more survivable reality will be a new normal, like having a man toddler POTUS except with face masks and social distancing. If you want to go to a Trump rally and scream your head off, flinging off the spittle, I guess that’s just your old freedom bone acting up.

I don’t know how some people get “no big deal” out of the number of deaths we’ve seen in the face of the measures we’ve taken. I work directly with COVID + patients and I’m beyond ecstatic we’ve not seen what NYC has experienced. Wait till the flu and COVID line up in Fall/Winter though, they only overlapped a little this season. Can you say system overload?

That’s my big whoopty-fuckin-doo opinion anyway. I’m not enjoying this shit, hope you’re all as safe as you want to be. 

Edit: I read more about the much-touted “herd immunity”. Doesn’t sound great, Big Truck, you gotta hefty 1-2 million you gon’ have to get the back hoe out for. Not a good option until we have a vaccine. But go out and stand your ground, don’t shoot until you see the whites of their teeth.

Do you feel better now?

Ted Pinson wrote:

Do you feel better now?

Hell yeah, I do! Who doesn’t want to roast some weenies on the internet sometimes? That piece you posted is garbage, so it’s a good kill. I nailed her with my tiny little AR.

Laurie Mathis wrote:

Most of the 'scream your head off, flinging off the spittle' has been coming from the left over the past four years. CNN, MSNBC, AOC and the like have turned otherwise normal people into raging lunatics. They have had a monopoly on hate and don't like to see their opponents copy their antics.

Most of the 'scream your head off, flinging off the spittle' has been coming from the right over the past four years. FOX, Rush, Hannity, Trump, and the like have turned otherwise normal people into raging lunatics. They have had a monopoly on hate and don't like to see their opponents copy their antics.

Laurie - Just curious if you only think only one of the above paragraphs is legit, and one is totally out of line. 

Colonel Mustard wrote:

Hell yeah, I do! Who doesn’t want to roast some weenies on the internet sometimes? That piece you posted is garbage, so it’s a good kill. I nailed her with my tiny little AR.

Lol that’s good.  Wasn’t necessarily agreeing with the author, though I do think he brings up some interesting points.

Mark Pilate wrote:

Most of the 'scream your head off, flinging off the spittle' has been coming from the right over the past four years. FOX, Rush, Hannity, Trump, and the like have turned otherwise normal people into raging lunatics. They have had a monopoly on hate and don't like to see their opponents copy their antics.

Laurie - Just curious if you only think only one of the above paragraphs is legit, and one is totally out of line. 

The correct answer of course is that both are correct, because that’s how they fire up their bases and ratings to sustain this silly duopoly circus.