“New Route Project” Ethic?

I didn’t know what to call it... Basically, I was at crag recently (before COVID) and was pointing out a new line I planned to establish soon, to my partner.  A few days later, this guy messaged me and said that he climbed it and was wondering my opinion on anchors.  Obviously, this guy had every right to do this, but I was shocked that he would “steal” the line, considering he had never seen it before I pointed it out a few days prior.  Just wondering everyone’s thoughts.

Kinda dickish or maybe clueless, but my takeaway would be that if some FA mattered that much to me, I wouldn't discuss it within earshot of others beforehand.

Sounds like a dick move, is he your friend?

Chet Powers wrote: Sounds like a dick move, is he your friend?

I thought he was, we’ve climbed some together for a few months.

You'll draw your own lessons from this.

Curtis Baird wrote:

I thought he was, we’ve climbed some together for a few months.

From your post, I inferred that the person was a bystander, not the guy you were talking to. If it was the guy you were with, that was definitely a dick move. 

Cherokee Nunes wrote: You'll draw your own lessons from this.

Oh I‘ve already learned a lot.

Robert S wrote:

From your post, I inferred that the person was a bystander, not the guy you were talking to. If it was the guy you were with, that was definitely a dick move. 

Oh sorry, I see how it was interpreted that way.  Same person.

Curtis Baird wrote: I didn’t know what to call it... Basically, I was at crag recently (before COVID) and was pointing out a new line I planned to establish soon, to my partner.  A few days later, this guy messaged me and said that he climbed it and was wondering my opinion on anchors.  Obviously, this guy had every right to do this, but I was shocked that he would “steal” the line, considering he had never seen it before I pointed it out a few days prior.  Just wondering everyone’s thoughts.

This man STOLE from you! How do you plan to get your revenge?

Meow sure would wrote: Kinda weak that he didn’t ask you to join him in development, I would never snipe someone’s proj knowingly. That said, sharing in development is part of having partners. Unless you want to only climb with people below your level, eventually your partner will probably send something before you, and that may be an FA. Whenever I work on development w someone I’ll usually just put two names for the FA. Of course that guy didn’t give you the chance, which is really disrespectful to the effort, skill, creativity that goes into picking a new line. I’d ask him why he did that without you. Doesn’t have to end your partnership, but make your feelings known.

Thanks for the insight, in this particular case it wasn’t really about ability, more about not having the right gear at the time.

caughtinside wrote: I’m impressed. He climbed it without telling you but then had the courtesy to solicit your opinion for the anchor? Guy sounds clueless. 

More than you know.  He dropped me (not to the ground) one time and blamed it on the device, and then the other day he didn’t know how to tie an 8 on a bight.  Now in hindsight, there were lots of red flags, but I always tried to help him out.  Probably should have never mentioned the project, but I honestly didn’t think he had the skill to try it.  Guess I should not climb with him anymore.

What's the big deal? Unless you're sponsored and make a living off climbing (do you?), "claiming" an unclimbed route as "yours" is just about ego. Instead of getting upset that he "stole" the route from you, just be happy that he enjoyed the thing you saw, be psyched that it goes, and go enjoy it yourself.

Seth Cohen wrote: What's the big deal? Unless you're sponsored and make a living off climbing (do you?), "claiming" an unclimbed route as "yours" is just about ego. Instead of getting upset that he "stole" the route from you, just be happy that he enjoyed the thing you saw, be psyched that it goes, and go enjoy it yourself.

I guess you haven’t done much route development.  It isn’t about ego, its about having a vision and trying something not knowing how it will go, that is the point.

Thinking or talking about developing a route does not claim it.  He didn't steal anything from you.  If he did a good job on it, he did everyone a favor.  .

Whether or not you want to climb with him again, you owe it to both of you to explain to him the transgression, as you see it. Frankly, you don't even have to be a climber to understand that his action was damaging to the relationship. He excluded you from something he knew you were interested in doing.

You can only control yourself and the crap that comes out of your mouth.  

More thoughts in the brain = more FA
more talking = less FA

as you are now aware of.  

If my partner had done that, I would be psyched to hear how it climbed and would join him next time out to do the anchors. 

This guy's motivation can be used to your advantage. Next time you're out point out that "next classic line" (a.k.a. the one that's mostly choss and will needs hours of cleaning to be climbable) spouting about how amazing it will be. Wait a week and then you've got a fun new line that you didn't have to spend $100 bucks on and hours hanging in your harness. Win win! 

OP, you're right, I haven't done any route development. However, if your friend was really as clueless about some things as you say (like how to tie an 8 on a bight), it's quite possible that they've just never heard about these unwritten rules of development. For experienced climbers who read a lot of climbing news (and comments on MP...), it might be a familiar concept. But for more casual climbers who don't follow climbing news or do any developement themselves, the concept of "claiming" a potential route is not intuitive. Your friend might have just wanted to share the psych. So just explain to them that it would have been nice if they'd let you get the FA, and then leave it at that. Don't get angry or vengeful or whatever. Climbing is supposed to be fun. You can still go send the route and have fun on it.

But also...of course it's about ego. You wanted the glory and the challenge of figuring it out before anyone else. That's perfectly fine -- everything we do in climbing is about ego (and I mean that in a good way!). But it's important that we acknowledge that to ourselves, so we don't get too upset if our ego is challenged.

If it were a line i was really motivated on and was imminently going to work on it, i'd be pretty pissed. I could see him getting after it after a few weeks or more, but a few days and not mentioning it to you beforehand at all clearly indicates deception.

To those arguing that "FA's don't matter" and "you don't own the rock": Doesn't that just make it worse since this guy was willing to be a deceptive turd over something that "doesn't matter"?

Curtis Baird wrote:

More than you know.  He dropped me (not to the ground) one time and blamed it on the device, and then the other day he didn’t know how to tie an 8 on a bight.  Now in hindsight, there were lots of red flags, but I always tried to help him out.  Probably should have never mentioned the project, but I honestly didn’t think he had the skill to try it.  Guess I should not climb with him anymore.

Please, for the safety of the climbers in your area, do not let this guy supervise drilling and bolting anchors, who knows what kind of nonsense he would come up with.