Stolen Ropes

A Potter wrote: LNT principles should always be practiced, but equating a rope and rope bag with a piece of trash is highly problematic. 

No, it's not.  How far is this approach anyway?  LEAVE.  NO.  TRACE.  It's pretty simple.  A rope is a trace.  Leave none.  If you leave a rope, you're not leaving no trace.  Words matter.

How fucking far is this approach anyway, and who are these super strong climbers/developers that just can't possibly carry another 8 or 9 lbs?  

"Why did you leave this rope here?"

"The drill is pretty heavy, and I can't be expected to carry over 30 lbs on my back, and well, you see, that extra 7.9 lbs from that 60m 9.5 put me over the limit."

Makes perfect sense.  Pack your shit out.  If it's left, it's litter.  Whoever cleaned this shit up, thank you.

They need 70m ropes down there. So now you can see it's just too heavy.

you rock climbers are so soft. you can't even carry a rope in and out.

us ice climbers carry a rope, all our gear to stay warm, tools, thermos, cheese, salami, and a flask full of scotch. 

No-one has a right to store sports equipment on land other than their own, or with approval from the land owner. Climbers are strong, fit people.  Carry your sports equipment in and out or get another sport.

zCarl Schneider wrote: No-one has a right to store sports equipment on land other than their own, or with approval from the land owner. Climbers are strong, fit people.  Carry your sports equipment in and out or get another sport.

If you take that attitude, no one has the right to drill holes in the rock or leave bolts therein. 

I’m generally not a fan of stashing, but if done discreetly it’s not my business. 
I am adamantly opposed to stealing, which is what appears to be happening in the gorge. 
I’m not a local in CA or OZ, but if I discover upon visiting that the local ethic is wearing tin foil hats, I will damn sure keep my out of town opinion to myself. 

A Potter wrote:

LNT principles should always be practiced, but...

...but there is rebar in the canyon.

...but we're locals.

...but we've been doing it for a long time.

...but it wasn't convenient.

A Potter, I hope you get your ropes back, but you can see how this shit is really weak, right?

And to the person who took the ropes, wtf are you thinking? Be an adult, talk to people about your point of view, use your words. Don't take people's stuff anonymously. Return the ropes and have a discussion. Grow up already.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

If you take that attitude, no one has the right to drill holes in the rock or leave bolts therein. 

I’m generally not a fan of stashing, but if done discreetly it’s not my business. 
I am adamantly opposed to stealing, which is what appears to be happening in the gorge. 
I’m not a local in CA or OZ, but if I discover upon visiting that the local ethic is wearing tin foil hats, I will damn sure keep my out of town opinion to myself. 

So are we as a community allowed to use said stored rope? Bolting/anchors benefit the entire community and is banned in some places (who would have thought land managers/owners would do that). 

How did I live in bishop for two years and climbat the gorge a total of like 70 days and know that it isn’t acceptable practice according to the landowner... it doesn’t matter what a bunch of climbers say about the topic as the land is privately owned (same goes for the assholes that try to camp on LADPW land).
I’m not for stealing ropes and hiding the fact you took them. But I also think you don’t deserve your shit back without being called out when you leave your stuff on private property when you aren’t supposed to. 

I'm not a local, as I said, so don't feel competent to opine about the appropriateness of stashing specifically in the gorge.

But I don't feel like I need to be a local to oppose stealing. Stealing is wrong.

If the stashes need to be removed, then do it, notify the perpetrators and make them suffer a bit to get the stuff returned.

If the behavior persists, remove the stashes, auction them off and donate the proceeds to your local climbing organization or the Access Fund.

Honestly, I don't like stashes, but if the land manager doesn't care, I'm not going to go all vigilante.

Good point.

Situational though. I don't know how close the LCO is to LADWP, whether they would be ahead of the curve on this kind of thing.

Insert is definitely right about the poached camping- that's totally verboten at Owens.
A few mysteriously flat tires would seem to be in order.

I can see stashing thirty pounds of bolting gear, but frankly, stashing a rope for a 20 minute approach seems kind of feeble.

funny,  that ive never seen or participated in another sport where people steal each other shit, and people even encourage it and make up some fucked up way of thinking that its ok by calling it garbage or trash......smfh.......

if someone was trying to prove a point, they would have come forward and said so by trying to shame whoever owned the gear when they came forward to get it. plain and simple, someone is obviously stealing it...same assholes who try to use the "stashed gear is trash because it isnt your land" are ok with "we will just drill a million holes and leave metal junk in them on land thats not ours, and thats just fine" and will cry like babies when places gets shut down (i know org landowners dont care about bolts, ive climbed there plenty of times...)

EFS wrote: funny,  that ive never seen or participated in another sport where people steal each other shit, and people even encourage it and make up some fucked up way of thinking that its ok by calling it garbage or trash......smfh.......

if someone was trying to prove a point, they would have come forward and said so by trying to shame whoever owned the gear when they came forward to get it. plain and simple, someone is obviously stealing it...same assholes who try to use the "stashed gear is trash because it isnt your land" are ok with "we will just drill a million holes and leave metal junk in them on land thats not ours, and thats just fine" and will cry like babies when places gets shut down (i know org landowners dont care about bolts, ive climbed there plenty of times...)

I don’t see a single person saying they deserved to have the ropes stolen. It’s just silly to assume people won’t hack your stuff.

So, if I start leaving my surfboard at the beach or my bike at a skatepark, I wouldn’t be shocked if I came back and it was gone 

EFS wrote: funny,  that ive never seen or participated in another sport where people steal each other shit, and people even encourage it and make up some fucked up way of thinking that its ok by calling it garbage or trash......smfh.......

Lots of people put up hunting stands on public property and then leave them there for weeks/months/years.  I routinely take them down and leave them on the ground.  Never stole any, but the straps eventually will cut into the tree and possible harm it so I take them down. Anything left in the woods overnight is illegal. 

Some of these rogue stands were obviously not left on purpose, they were quite nice, but the person probably just couldn't find it again.  GPS solves this problem.

Oh dude I totally feel you. I left my 52" high def tv on the sidewalk in front of my house. You know just to stash it for awhile. And was totally surprised when I came back and someone had "stolen" it. Geez what's the world coming to when you cant just leave valuables laying around without them getting "stolen". Get a clue rope wasn't "stolen" it was given away by you!

PNW Choss wrote: Oh dude I totally feel you. I left my 52" high def tv on the sidewalk in front of my house. You know just to stash it for awhile. And was totally surprised when I came back and someone had "stolen" it. Geez what's the world coming to when you cant just leave valuables laying around without them getting "stolen". Get a clue rope wasn't "stolen" it was given away by you!

truth

Buck Rio wrote:

Lots of people put up hunting stands on public property and then leave them there for weeks/months/years.  I routinely take them down and leave them on the ground.  Never stole any, but the straps eventually will cut into the tree and possible harm it so I take them down. Anything left in the woods overnight is illegal. 

Some of these rogue stands were obviously not left on purpose, they were quite nice, but the person probably just couldn't find it again.  GPS solves this problem.

FWIW many National Forest have specific rules on hunting stands. Some can be left in place for no more than two weeks. Others for the season. Many people are ignorant of the rules.

If the stash is well hidden, then who really cares so long as there isn’t some negative underlying reason it shouldn’t be there.
If signs are posted and it creates some sort of issue for everyone, don’t steal them, just reconsider your choice in where you choose to relieve yourself. 

PNW Choss wrote: Oh dude I totally feel you. I left my 52" high def tv on the sidewalk in front of my house. You know just to stash it for awhile. And was totally surprised when I came back and someone had "stolen" it. Geez what's the world coming to when you cant just leave valuables laying around without them getting "stolen". Get a clue rope wasn't "stolen" it was given away by you!

This is so far off it's comical. Do you watch TV on the sidewalk? 

Is stealing a car okay because you see the keys inside and it's unlocked? Is it okay to steal an unlocked bike? An "abandoned" wallet? Can I steal your laptop if it's "stashed" at your table at the coffee shop while you go to the bathroom? 

A Potter wrote:

This is so far off it's comical. Do you watch TV on the sidewalk? 

Is stealing a car okay because you see the keys inside and it's unlocked? Is it okay to steal an unlocked bike? An "abandoned" wallet? Can I steal your laptop if it's "stashed" at your table at the coffee shop while you go to the bathroom? 

i think the point is, if you leave something valuable out in public, don't be surprised if it gets taken... yes, stealing is stealing..but no need to "help" the thieves...

Pirates used to be really good at stashing crap. If I was to stash my stuff I'd think like a pirate.

A Potter, is ok to park your car on some else's property because it's easier for you?