List of permitted guides Joshua Tree

caughtinside wrote:

I encountered that situation in NorCal years ago.  A guide service was guiding in an area they didn't have a permit in.  They ran their clientele through a guide service that did have a permit, and the permitted guide service took a cut.  I don't think there was anything wrong with that, it's like hiring a subcontractor, and the permitted service still holds the liability.  I don't know if "sponsored" is the term for it though. 

In river guiding they have a certain number of slots basically, if they don't fill them they can sell those slots to another company. I wonder if it is similar in JTree?

Typically the way it works is there's a set number of user days.  (1 client in the field for 1 day=one user day. 2 clients for 1 day=2, etc)  Sometimes it's fully open season and there's no limit on use, (typical in state parks) but more often than not the land manager will give the outfitter/guide a set number of user days per venue per year. (sometimes also broken down by season)  Some guide services won't share their user days in a given venue if the days are particularly valuable and always sell out.  Rainier is a good example of this.  Demand for guided climbing is way higher than the number of days the concessions are given each year, so they sell out virtually every season.  This makes it way more difficult to guest guide there.  (another unfortunate byproduct of this is that you have climbers that wanted to hire a guide going for it on their own and behaving poorly)

Edit to add: one company 'sponsoring' another isn't really that crazy.  As has been said, it's no different than hiring a subcontractor.  The land managers are entrusting a given guide service to hire those who they feel will provide a safe and enjoyable climbing experience while minimizing social and environmental impacts.  If that's not happening, complain to the guide service (if it's this particular scenario) or complain to the park.  In this case, said guide service feels it's okay to hire guides from a different company to run a climbing trip.  Assuming the guides were doing a good job, why is that wrong?

Also, since when did mp.com care about guides following the rules?  I feel like every time guiding comes up people come out of the woodwork complaining about how a guide is basically a bad rock climber with an over-inflated ego and a bunch of patches on their clothes.  Usually while attesting how they could do as good a job or better than a guide for half the money.

Max Tepfer wrote: Also, since when did mp.com care about guides following the rules?

Tradifool is definitely not representative of mp.com.

Max Tepfer wrote: The land managers are entrusting a given guide service to hire those who they feel will provide a safe and enjoyable climbing experience while minimizing social and environmental impacts.  If that's not happening, complain to the guide service (if it's this particular scenario) or complain to the park.  In this case, said guide service feels it's okay to hire guides from a different company to run a climbing trip.  Assuming the guides were doing a good job, why is that wrong?

When did guides start operating like the gov't?

Also, since when did mp.com care about guides following the rules? 

I care.

Can not talk about unpermitted guides without mentioning Jim Mattern

Jim Mattern, douche bag or NPS victim?

​https://www.docketbird.com/court-documents/USA-v-Mattern/PLEA-AGREEMENT-16-signed-by-Magistrate-Judge-Jennifer-L-Thurston-on-11-26-2019-as-to-James-B-Mattern/caed-5:2018-mj-00035-00017​​​