Backcountry Skiing Trail Etiquette

John Byrnes wrote:

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Good point; I stand corrected.

edit: for some reason my brain went of on a MTB tangent.

curt86iroc wrote:

to be fair, it is a reasonable comparison to make....or at least the closest comparison i can think of....

Agree to disagree I suppose. Exiting an area on skis you're presumably on a snowy slope allowing someone to veer off a track to pass uphill travelers, then ski back into it. If we're talking snow covered roads then there's more than enough space for both skiers to pass by one another without yielding to one another. When traveling on a singletrack mtb trail, the rider going downhill can't do that, or if they do they cause trail and vegetation damage so it requires some sort of predetermined etiquette. If you're biking on a fire road it's just like skiing where you just ride past one another.

Tapawingo Markey wrote:

Agree to disagree I suppose. Exiting an area on skis you're presumably on a snowy slope allowing someone to veer off a track to pass uphill travelers, then ski back into it. If we're talking snow covered roads then there's more than enough space for both skiers to pass by one another without yielding to one another. When traveling on a singletrack mtb trail, the rider going downhill can't do that, or if they do they cause trail and vegetation damage so it requires some sort of predetermined etiquette. If you're biking on a fire road it's just like skiing where you just ride past one another.

i agree it's not the same, but my point was mtn biking the closest comparison one can draw on for existing trail etiquette...unless you have something else in mind...

personally, i don't think there needs to be a defined etiquette for managing uphill/downhill BC ski traffic. this should simply fall into the "don't be a dick" column...which some people in this thread don't seem to grasp...

Perry Norris wrote: I am having trouble visualizing the conflict. Who skis down the skin track?

I'd say in most major trailheads here in the Wasatch, most folks end up skiing down the way they came up for at least part of their day.  Mill D North, Beartrap, White Pine, etc etc etc.

I try to step aside when skinning up a narrow track if I see a skier coming especially if they don't have a lot of options.  I'm also sensitive to blind spots when I'm cruising down the up track.

But there's going to be times when both parties are going to "meet up", so to speak.  Wiping out an uphill skier because you can't control your speed or line coming down a busy up track won't be super awesome and if someone gets hurt, it'll be the downhill skiers fault, IMHO.  

On a deeper powder day, folks bombing back down the up track to get to the trailhead like to keep their speed so they don't get stuck in the flats.  I try to move over but sometimes, around a corner or a blind spot, they just end up right in your face.  I don't appreciate a "move over asshole" in those situations, especially if they have speed and plenty of trail.  Plus, they're going home and I'm just getting started...

On a busy day (never busy here in Wasangles, eh Boissal?  Ha ha)...on some up tracks if you stopped every time a down hiller came by you'd never make any uphill progress...

Anyhow...good times.  Just try to be nice.  

Brian in SLC wrote: ...Wiping out an uphill skier because you can't control your speed or line coming down a busy up track won't be super awesome and if someone gets hurt, it'll be the downhill skiers fault, IMHO.  ...

^this

If a skier crashes another skier in the middle of the forest, does anyone else care?
Wink face.

revans90 wrote: In ski world people bellow your have the right of way. 

That’s what John was saying.  To bellow that you have “RIGHT OF WAY!!” As you ski by...

Seriously though, you are confusing inbound rules where people are going same direction, with restricted maneuverability in the BC.   Completely different situations.  There is logic behind all the rules, whether it’s maritime, mtn bike, or skiing.  The logic principle is visibility and maneuverability.   It’s not as simple as uphill or downhill position in all situations. 

What's the etiquette for having come down a tight, black run on a cross country course? Do you just stand there in the runout zone like a moron and announce to the next guy trying to avoid hitting you that you are 70 and did it successfully? Asking for a friend.

I snowshoed up and down the trail that goes to the Banana bowls for my AIARE course. Both on the way up and down, I got off the side of the trail for downhill skiers. It was kind of annoying at times when packs of 10-20 skiers come by spaced out by 10-20 seconds shouting "more behind" and you just have to stand off the side of the trail and twiddle your thumbs. Maybe a better solution on trails like that, which are quite narrow, is just to have skiers skin out?  

Lucas deHart wrote: I snowshoed up and down the trail that goes to the Banana bowls for my AIARE course. Both on the way up and down, I got off the side of the trail for downhill skiers. It was kind of annoying at times when packs of 10-20 skiers come by spaced out by 10-20 seconds shouting "more behind" and you just have to stand off the side of the trail and twiddle your thumbs. Maybe a better solution on trails like that, which are quite narrow, is just to have skiers skin out?  

This could only be a suggestion from someone who doesn't actually ski. The effort required for an uphill traveler to stand aside and let downhill travelers by is minimal - at worst you "twiddle your thumbs" for a minute. On the other hand, for a downhill skier to stop and lose momentum for the flats or descend with skins may significantly increase the effort and time of getting out. Anyone who has spent much time in the backcountry knows that as much as possible, the uphill traveler yields for the downhill skier.

Tim Stich wrote: What's the etiquette for having come down a tight, black run on a cross country course? Do you just stand there in the runout zone like a moron and announce to the next guy trying to avoid hitting you that you are 70 and did it successfully? Asking for a friend.

There's "black" runs on a cross country course?  

Don't you say "hup"?  

Hup hup.

Brian in SLC wrote:

There's "black" runs on a cross country course?  

Don't you say "hup"?  

Hup hup.

Oddly enough, there are black runs. This one wasn't particularly dangerous, as it wasn't in the trees. It was just a drag because I almost had the turn, but this woman was just standing there where I needed to go, so I just biffed it to stop.

Lol - Lord Slime, Supertopo, rec.backcountry and rec.skiing reincarnated from the dead - all in one thread on MP.com.  

My 2c - the MTB crowd is the only group that generally knows and follows up/down etiquette.  For the rest - nobody knows or follows anything, as seen here, so the biggest asshole moving at the highest velocity is the one who actually gets the right-of-way.

hifno wrote:

This could only be a suggestion from someone who doesn't actually ski...

Eh, fair enough. Like I said, that's what I did and it did feel pretty natural to get out of the way of the people going fast. I do actually ski, but this is my first season backcountry and I haven't been anywhere that narrow yet, somewhat on purpose. 

Lucas deHart wrote: I snowshoed up and down the trail that goes to the Banana bowls for my AIARE course. Both on the way up and down, I got off the side of the trail for downhill skiers. It was kind of annoying at times when packs of 10-20 skiers come by spaced out by 10-20 seconds shouting "more behind" and you just have to stand off the side of the trail and twiddle your thumbs. Maybe a better solution on trails like that, which are quite narrow, is just to have skiers skin out?  

The savvy snowshoer puts in a separate track.  Don't boot out the skinner, bro.

Annoying is bombing down the trail, coming around a corner, and seeing three snow shoers standing abreast across the trail...

But its all good.  Multiple use!  Just try to be nice and I'll try not to use you as a gate when I turn around you at speed...(pre-apologize as I kinda enjoy doing that).

All in good fun!

Brian in SLC wrote:

The savvy snowshoer puts in a separate track.  Don't boot out the skinner, bro.

Annoying is bombing down the trail, coming around a corner, and seeing three snow shoers standing abreast across the trail...

But its all good.  Multiple use!  Just try to be nice and I'll try not to use you as a gate when I turn around you at speed...(pre-apologize as I kinda enjoy doing that).

All in good fun!

Hey Brian, this particular trail is too narrow for there to really be a skin track that's separate from the boot track. In fact, the whole trail very quickly becomes packed out. I've skied enough to know never to boot or snowshoe in the skin track. As fair as standing abreast, that annoys me on the sidewalk, much less in the backcountry.

Ryan Khey wrote:This was in RMNP and ....a splitboarder physically boxed me out from passing him...

RMNP was exactly what came to mind.  

Perhaps splitboarders should have one of those orange kid bike flags sticking out of their packs so others can immediately recognize this person already has impaired judgment and can react accordingly.   ;)

Ryan Khey wrote: More context:

This was in RMNP and specifically the access trail to the Banana Bowls. After a few laps on the face, my partner and I descended the hiking trail (common exit). A splitboarder physically boxed me out from passing him as I tried to avoid a collision by cutting on the upward slope. A bush stopped me. The splitboarder then said “oh, am I in your way?” and with angst. To which I replied, “you kind of are.”

Most of the access trails in RMNP are multiuser trails, hikers and uphill travel groups should have the right of way.

Seriously, how hard is it to stop and continue down hill? 

Lucas deHart wrote: I snowshoed up and down the trail that goes to the Banana bowls for my AIARE course. Both on the way up and down, I got off the side of the trail for downhill skiers. It was kind of annoying at times when packs of 10-20 skiers come by spaced out by 10-20 seconds shouting "more behind" and you just have to stand off the side of the trail and twiddle your thumbs. Maybe a better solution on trails like that, which are quite narrow, is just to have skiers skin out?  

Skis in uphill mode going downhill have way less control than skis in ski mode. The skins add some drag but skiing in walk mode with the heels free is a bit like tightrope walking and I think you'd be a lot more likely to hit someone. Sometimes I'll put my skins on in ski mode if the trail is particularly luge-y.

Snowshoes chew the hell out of a nice, smooth skin track but I'm happy to see people out there enjoying the mountains be it on snowshoes, skis, splitboards, sno-blades etc... Sharing is unfortunately annoying sometimes.

John Byrnes wrote: No, it's not.

Which is why you should be reading and not writing.  

Your entire interaction on this thread reminds me of a movie quote....

"You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole."