City of Rocks and self entitled climbers

Never More wrote:

Truly curious, how does this apply?

A very long winded, pompous way of saying assert yourself

Greg Davis wrote: Why do people walk up to large groups and want to climb near them?? The last place I want to hang out is next to a giant group.

People should be friendly and pull ropes, I do all the time. Next time take some deep breaths, try having a nice adult conversation and find some friendly solutions instead of collapsing into a ball of social anxiety.

Well, back here in reality the big groups are all there for the same reason I’m probably there, there are good climbs in the area. If I’m somewhere I get to go to often I will usually keep walking but if I’m somewhere I don’t get to go to very often, then yes, I’ll approach to see if I can get in the classic that is inevitably buried behind the big group so that I too, can tick it off. 

And yes, people should be nice and pull ropes. Should. Unfortunately climbers are people and there are a lot of people who are assholes. It doesn’t matter if you have a nice adult conversation or not. People will always be assholes. 

Mike Lane wrote:

A very long winded, pompous way of saying assert yourself

Honest response. It does seem people are allowing themselves to be ruled by the desires of the first one to speak up. A little "assert yourself" in a reasonable fashion can go a long way.

Or not.

B P wrote:

Well, back here in reality the big groups are all there for the same reason I’m probably there, there are good climbs in the area. 

And yes, people should be nice and pull ropes. Should. Unfortunately climbers are people and there are a lot of people who are assholes. It doesn’t matter if you have a nice adult conversation or not. People will always be assholes. 

I don’t care how classic is a climb if I show up hoping someone will move along 20 years of climbing has told me people move at their pace not mine.

There are assholes and rude people- try to avoid them instead of squeeze jobbing in between for a tic. If it is appropriate for a large group of beginners probably not your speed eh?
Also let’s be frank these are weekend problems. I don’t think it’s a good idea hoping and praying the unwashed masses will relent and let you get that sweet sweet send of Susie’s Bubblegum 5.7-

after many years of climbing, i learned to just go during the week and stay away on weekends....its so much more peaceful.....of course, not everyone can do that.

Greg Davis wrote: Why do people walk up to large groups and want to climb near them?? The last place I want to hang out is next to a giant group.

People should be friendly and pull ropes, I do all the time. Next time take some deep breaths, try having a nice adult conversation and find some friendly solutions instead of collapsing into a ball of social anxiety.

Hi Greg, 

Yeah so we walked around the north side of bath rock to see the group lunching and sunbathing, it’s not like you can see what’s up till you arrive, nobody climbing. Guide dude approached immediately. Didn’t want to climb near them but wanted to climb 3 notable routes that had unused ropes hanging. We left only to come back and climbed at dusk.Your comment has a couple points... don’t climb near groups... have an adult conversation instead of anxiety. Ok. Thanks for your contribution. 
From the MP responses so far, there is a fair mix of assert yourself or walk away comments. You have done both.
I am generally easy going on climbing trips but this next time I’ll probably shower, get a backbone, pack heat, and if you’re cool I’ll get pizza.

EFS wrote: after many years of climbing, i learned to just go during the week and stay away on weekends....its so much more peaceful.....of course, not everyone can do that.

Normally I stay away from crowded areas and climb midweek when possible. Went climbing today at one of the more popular crags near Denver and had a great time. I’ve never done this on the weekend before but was surprised by the friendly natives. All good times and no puffy chests.

i dont think ive ever happend across douchey climbers at the crag. people doing dumb shit, yes, but no attitudes. mostly everyone is always friendly and willing to trade topropes if thats what youre doing, or would pull their rope to let you lead it. (always offer to hang their rope when youre done)..... the only place i have seen attitude was at the gym when i had started climbing and was a noob, there was a small group of "elitist" climbers who couldnt be bothered to converse with anyone if they werent climbing at least 11s or 12s.

garrick steele wrote:

Hi Greg, 

Yeah so we walked around the north side of bath rock to see the group lunching and sunbathing, it’s not like you can see what’s up till you arrive, nobody climbing. Guide dude approached immediately. Didn’t want to climb near them but wanted to climb 3 notable routes that had unused ropes hanging. We left only to come back and climbed at dusk.Your comment has a couple points... don’t climb near groups... have an adult conversation instead of anxiety. Ok. Thanks for your contribution. 
From the MP responses so far, there is a fair mix of assert yourself or walk away comments. You have done both.
I am generally easy going on climbing trips but this next time I’ll probably shower, get a backbone, pack heat, and if you’re cool I’ll get pizza.

Right on, sorry my post was agggressive. Speaking of poor experiences, I was with a group out in mammoth (about 8 of us) and we had 4 ropes set up in Clark Canyon in area 13, a place packed with about 40 easy routes 5.7 to 5.10. We had a family of 4 (grown children) come up, demand that we pull down our ropes (had people actively climbing on them), start screaming at us that we have no right to hang out somewhere for the day, lead on our route past a climber and drop our rope on their head. I have my company logo on my shirt and am representing a business and had to just kind of hang out while someone power tripped all over and made my guests really uncomfortable. There have been multiple situations in the past that were similar, even had one group go onto yelp and give my company a 1 star review because we were on Fun Stuff in Joshua Tree and they really wanted to climb it....

All of these things really boil down to what your expectations are. I don't expect to be able to walk up to Double Cross on a weekend and climb it, if someone wants to do aeriel practice on it and knit a rug halfway up, that might really mess with my plans, but ultimately they got up earlier and got their first so I gotta climb somewhere else. One time I was in Yosemite and a guide set up a TR on the first pitch of After Seven. Sucks, but unless I want to be an old man yelling at the wind I should just practice what I preach and find a new climb.

Maybe they are assholes, maybe rude, maybe inconsiderate, maybe stressed out or anxious that they have to deliver to their friends or guests? I don't know, but I try not to focus on those parts and take the lesson - usually, lesson being "don't be that guy" and "what was I expecting anyway."

Greg Davis wrote:

Right on, sorry my post was agggressive. Speaking of poor experiences, I was with a group out in mammoth (about 8 of us) and we had 4 ropes set up in Clark Canyon in area 13, a place packed with about 40 easy routes 5.7 to 5.10. We had a family of 4 (grown children) come up, demand that we pull down our ropes (had people actively climbing on them), start screaming at us that we have no right to hang out somewhere for the day, 

Tweakers gonna tweak. Surprised they made it all the way to Clark Canyon, though. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

Tweakers gonna tweak. Surprised they made it all the way to Clark Canyon, though. 

Sigh. Tweakers, really? I’ve had to deal with some tweakers on some short hikes, and at some hot springs, and in some public campgrounds, but on climbs? Are you serious? What next? Topping out on Ranier? 

Bleh. Deeper into the backcountry for me, I suppose.

Josh Gibbel wrote: I’m planning a trip out there. So if I want to climb a bunch of classics at City of Rocks when would be the best months to avoid the guides? 

I climbed at the City at least once a month from March through November last year, and in my experience Fall is better than Spring.  Spring has a lot more people from Wyoming, Montana, and Sun Valley.  The weather is also more stable in the Fall.  July and August can be miserably hot, but you can still find good climbing in the shade.  Obviously, any nice weekend will be busy.

FWIW, October is usually my favorite monthbat the City.

I was a "local" to City of Rocks for a few years (2 hours north).  I split my time pretty evenly between bouldering, sport climbing, and trad climbing and I always had quite positive experiences with the other "locals" and the out-of-towners.  

Agree that fall is better. Less crowded and less rain.

garrick steele wrote: Ok ok. Looks like my only options are to shower, get a backbone, and pack heat. Thanks guys. Much love

There is another option.......  Get a hang board... get stronger fingers and move away from 5.7... This didn't work for me however so I just quit going.  Isn't humanity wonderful?

Tom Hore wrote:

There is another option.......  Get a hang board... get stronger fingers and move away from 5.7... This didn't work for me however so I just quit going.  Isn't humanity wonderful?

I swear my dry and cynical humor will get me in trouble one day.

Tom, I like the tone of your suggestion... it implies that one should look inward to resolve issues with others. In this case overcome weakness by becoming stronger. That, as you noted, requires working out. Working out is hard. Had you suggested this closer to the turn of the new year I may have entertained such "new year, new you" type resolution, but we are now in that second half of January and I have no patience for "becoming a better me", for that is much too difficult. Instead of looking inward to resolve this issue with society, I'll look outward to nail down and exploit a common weakness of the climbing community, and if I succeed I shall have no issue with society for all will bow at my feet allowing me to climb any route of my choosing, even 5.7. I've studied many recent polls and have identified a single common weakness that I shall exploit, that is soft baked cookies, people love soft baked cookies, they can't get enough. My approach will be to stuff as many soft baked cookies in a pillow case and offer them up at the crag, everyone will be so distracted eating soft baked cookies hand over fist that I will be able to jump on any route, even 5.7.

Looking forward to seeing you out at the crag. I'll be the guy with the pillow case full of cookies.

City of Rocks yesterday. We were it, the only ones in the park. Well, except for an elk herd later, and I think the park ranger may have looped up by Bath rock while we were out postholing about (even with snowshoes). Wild and beautiful!

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote: City of Rocks yesterday. We were it, the only ones in the park. Well, except for an elk herd later, and I think the park ranger may have looped up by Bath rock while we were out postholing about (even with snowshoes). Wild and beautiful!

Best, Helen

How much snow is on the ground at the city? 

ADAM GRANT wrote:

How much snow is on the ground at the city? 

It varies a lot. Blown off, in places, but deep enough I was postholing even with snowshoes. Blowing and drifting, too. We were near the Circle Creek towers, via Bath Rock.* Generally, I'd say it's close to 3 feet, lots deeper where it's piled up, less where it's blown away. 

Rocks have snow too, but again, it varies wildly.

Be prepared to buy or bring water, although I'm guessing the visitor center, Tracy's or Rock City may let you fill up a bottle or two.

My first winter visit, but not my first snow in the City. That was the Idaho Mountain Festival a few years ago! Oops.

Wild, beautiful, and very photogenic, as City often is, with weather rolling through. I'm not sharing pics, you need to adventure there on your own, if this appeals. I'm sure glad we got there!

Best, Helen

*Edit to add, approximately via the trails, you can sorta see where they might be, they dip down. Even more postholey cross country. Be careful, be able to navigate, consider yourself back country. We really were the only ones.

Or just visit Castle, or do a snowshoe trip with the Parks peeps! Super nice people.

Old lady H
Thanks for the update! A buddy and I have a winter objective we are toying around with.