Stop Making Movies About White Guys Doing Cool Shit: The Sequel

Kalil Oldham wrote: We are in agreement about this.

Do your own work. I'm not here to perform for you.

Careful there. While I acknowledge my light skin privilege - that I often pass for white among strangers - I'm not white. I appreciate white people stepping up to challenge and disrupt instances of bias, discrimination, and the perpetuation of systems of oppression.

As these threads reveal, the reaction to anyone pointing out injustice is often over the top: insulting, angry, and personal. It's disappointing, but also unsurprising. The anger, the snark, the personal attacks are all means by which we are reminded that certain people find the discussion of injustice more offensive than the injustice itself. It's interesting that some are more bothered by discussions of racism than they are by the actual racist acts and systems.

It's also interesting that folks have chosen to turn notions of social justice and social consciousness into insults (e.g., wielding "SJW" and "woke" as epithets). It's this culturally enforced silence that has allowed racial inequality to survive, in some cases to worsen, in a society that explicitly claims equality as one of its founding principles. Honestly, it's sometimes unpleasant and always tiring to engage in these threads, but it's good practice for having hard conversations in the real world :)

Okay so you have done nothing except whine online... congrats you're just as good as me!!!!

Kalil Oldham wrote: We are in agreement about this.

Do your own work. I'm not here to perform for you.

Careful there. While I acknowledge my light skin privilege - that I often pass for white among strangers - I'm not white. I appreciate white people stepping up to challenge and disrupt instances of bias, discrimination, and the perpetuation of systems of oppression.

As these threads reveal, the reaction to anyone pointing out injustice is often over the top: insulting, angry, and personal. It's disappointing, but also unsurprising. The anger, the snark, the personal attacks are all means by which we are reminded that certain people find the discussion of injustice more offensive than the injustice itself. It's interesting that some are more bothered by discussions of racism than they are by the actual racist acts and systems.

It's also interesting that folks have chosen to turn notions of social justice and social consciousness into insults (e.g., wielding "SJW" and "woke" as epithets). It's this culturally enforced silence that has allowed racial inequality to survive, in some cases to worsen, in a society that explicitly claims equality as one of its founding principles. Honestly, it's sometimes unpleasant and always tiring to engage in these threads, but it's good practice for having hard conversations in the real world :)

All I can say is thank you, Kalil, for being willing to respond in this thread. What you have to say is valuable. 

Kalil, I’m glad that you are engaging in this conversation, and taking time to explain things civilly, despite multiple people jumping on you. 

And caughtindude, well said. I do think that the balance is tricky. The part where all and every injustice/inequality has to be part of every conversation, or else it isn’t inclusive enough, and therefore bad, usually trips me up, too.

Like the criticism of Slaydies, which centered around strong women (good thing), and had female cinematographer who was also not white (great!), but didn’t include the acknowledgement of indigenous history, or non-white climbers, and also had a name that, to some, evoked cultural appropriation. Somehow the good things that were present didn’t count, because of all the other things that were not present. 

This is fake right? No one is actually angry about Megos being a good climber .... right? lol

Kalil Oldham wrote:

• Participate in the democratic process: find an issue you care about and work to see it addressed by your reps. You can vote, knock doors, make calls to voters, write and call your legislator, volunteer your time in any number of ways, or contribute to campaigns at the local level. This type of civic engagement in the process has proven impacts, and it can be fun.
• Support organizations doing good work: the SPLC, the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, the EDF, the EJI, Fair Fight, and many other national organizations are staffed by full time SJWs, and their work requires financial support. Even small monthly contributions can help these organizations, and they have a proven track record.
• Volunteer in your community: people here on the Proj tend to be outdoor enthusiasts. Maybe volunteer with the local AAC or other organization to mentor people new to the sport, particularly young people from underrepresented groups.
• Engage with people on an individual level: make a deliberate effort to challenge instances of bias and discrimination that you witness.
• Leverage your consumption: support businesses that uphold the values you believe in or that serve communities you care about.
• Choose a profession that serves the cause of justice: whether you're a doctor, lawyer, architect, engineer, police officer, or teacher, within your profession there are tools at your disposal to serve the cause of justice if you choose to do so.
• Finally, please know that "woke" is not a pejorative term for a lot of people. Maybe consider getting to know some of those folks.

Which ones have you done?

I don't see keyboard warrior on your list?

Marcelo F wrote: If anyone is interested in making movies about a brown guy doing very average shit, hit me up.

This man saw an opportunity and seized it hahaha

It’s like she woke up and thought “How can I victimize myself today?” 

Just keep breeding like mad,  and continue being brainwashed into thinking #plasticdestroystheearth while 7 billion people drive their oil burning cars relentlessly over what little is left and we won't have to worry about any of these race issues in 10-30 years!

"BUT I DESERVE EVERYTHING EVERYONE ELSE DESERVES!!!!!!!"

Go humans! 

Here is my opinion on why I think there is a lot of passion in this thread:

Gumbo Jones wrote: Here is my opinion on why I think there is a lot of passion in this thread:

People are being told that they are unconsciously being defensive with regards to their white supremacy. That is insulting. Many of us know how welcoming the climbing community is; therefore, we don’t attribute the lack of diversity in climbing films to racism. But if we disagree with the SJW opinion, we are unconsciously racist. The reason that there is a lack of diversity in climbing films is white privilege and unconscious suppression. That is the answer, and if you disagree you are in denial. 
That is no discussion. If you bring that attitude to the table there can be no discussion . You are not open to considering other possibilities. 

You created a profile just so you could post this?  Did you get tired of being an instagram troll.

Interesting thread-this whole discussion would have been literally unthinkable when I started climbing half a century ago. I look forward to the reactions to AI controlled climbing robots with real-time visual "movies"; quite probable in the next decade or 2 given speed of tech increase.  Ought to really start some good discussions (meat vs metal 'intelligence'). Best wishes to all.

It's a shame this "writer" has such poor writing skills.  These are important issues, but when every article is solely against White Men, and uses all the SJW type of buzzwords, it makes it tough to take it seriously.  It's very clear that this is a confused, young individual.  They really just seem to hate white people to be honest.  Having an "us vs. them" attitude is not a very productive way to inspire change.

First step is create victimized classes, thus dividing society before it learns to cooperate on its own without authoritarian control.
Refute the principles of negative rights by flooding society with demands for positive rights,
Then start criminalizing.
This is the kind of shit you get when college professors get tenured and then have nothing but time and overdeveloped egos and tons of simple minded children with no actual street experience to carry out your schemes.​
This bullshit right here​​​

TR Fellhung wrote:

"not white" has become a badge of honor!

No, I don’t think so. What makes you say that?

In the example I have used, Sladies wasn’t advertised or promoted as a movie made by a POC. 

I brought it up because *I* think that it is good that there is more diversity among the cinematographers. Not because Tara Kerzhner wears a badge of honor for her parentage. 

She is a talented cinematographer, and should be rightly proud of that.  She also happens to be a woman, and also happens to be not white. 

G K Chesterton wrote: First step is create victimized classes, thus dividing society before it learns to cooperate on its own without authoritarian control.
Refute the principles of negative rights by flooding society with demands for positive rights,
Then start criminalizing.
This is the kind of shit you get when college professors get tenured and then have nothing but time and overdeveloped egos and tons of simple minded children with no actual street experience to carry out your schemes.
This bullshit right here

Hey man, I'll try to level with you on this...

To claim that those who are being victimized are "creating" a victimized class before it learns to "cooperate" puts the responsibility of dismantling systems of oppression on marginalized groups and has been a strategy of perpetuating racism and sexism for years. These statements are a trope and it's a dangerous one. To claim that laws are in place which create oppression against a dominant group of people when what is really happening is that a marginalized group is asking for fair or better treatment is a pretty dangerous line of thinking.

Also, your article (which you are using for proof but is founded on the principle of the slippery slope fallacy) points to one extreme of how this can manifest, ignores all of the good that can come of anti-oppression work, and acts as though things like this are the only direction this can go. It's hysteria mongering and a false outrage market that is growing quickly. Like when people who are transphobic point to some random 17-year-old on Tumblr who makes a joke about calling snowmen snowpeople and Fox News goes off about the fall of gender and society as we know it and claims that any movement toward trans inclusion will lead us to calling snowmen snowpeople. 

We want trans folks to be able to use whichever bathroom they want and don't really care about the gender identity of snow humans.

TR Fellhung wrote:

Have you read the title of this thread?

You're better at one-liners than responding to substantive points being made.

Shtom Randall wrote: It's a shame this "writer" has such poor writing skills.  These are important issues, but when every article is solely against White Men, and uses all the SJW type of buzzwords, it makes it tough to take it seriously.  It's very clear that this is a confused, young individual.  They really just seem to hate white people to be honest.  Having an "us vs. them" attitude is not a very productive way to inspire change.

That's not poor writing skill, that's poor critical thinking. 

TR Fellhung wrote: Yeah there are examples of manufactured outrage in every facet of politics, but none of this crap existed in climbing until this angry cult of SJWs came along.

I believe what didn't exist was people having their biases and discrimination pointed out. The tension was already there, white men like us just didn't need to think about it. This is common in most social justice efforts and this criticism of them is also common. 

I'm not trying to claim that there aren't those who take it too far or raise awareness poorly, certainly I've done both. But many people point the finger at those raising issues as the ones causing the problem and are sometimes unaware that the problem was always there and that the real call is to be aware of it. I'm not accusing you of this right now, rather pointing out that criticisms like the one you are making can often be caused by a misunderstanding.

Hope this makes some kind of sense, it's genuinely difficult to explain things online without sounding condescending.

Dave K wrote:

I've followed the thread, and the only concrete example of racism is the actual article from the OP. 

Racism is about more than just making a generalization based on skin color.. calling someone who is non white racist ignores the fact that racial/ethnic minorities generally don't have the power to damage the interests of whites. It ignores differences in power, influence and authority. When white people are racist toward minorities it has real and lasting consequences (think about the stereotypes of various ethic groups). Articles like this really don't damage economic, social, etc interests of white people so it's not racist. "Reverse racism" is a myth.