Repeat Sexual Assault in El Potrero Chico

Etha Williams wrote: Some of you guys seem to have an image of a naïve woman going through life blissfully ignorant of the dangers out there, unconcerned with protecting herself because she thinks others will do it for her. Do any of you actually know this person? Because I don't.

First, I want to start by saying that if these allegations are true, nothing on earth would justify them.  However, the statement above makes me cringe.

I am pretty sure we all know people like this (both male and female)...  Are you sure you don't know ANY? really?  I know 2 naive guys right off the top of my head that went to foreign countries, partied in sketchy areas, and got the shit kicked out of them.  one of them was almost beat to death by a group of women so they could take his watch.  both of them are really nice guys, but total trainwrecks.

you also brought up objective hazards like lightning and rockfall.  is lightning still an objective hazard when someone ignores the weather forecast and keeps pushing upward despite lightning cracking down everywhere?  is rockfall still an objective hazard when you get a crack of noon start and keep wallowing up that snowfilled couloir with a well-known stack of bowling balls lightly cemented together at the top? no, at that point it is called poor judgement.

(edit - i actually just thought of a 3rd guy who makes the other 2 trainwrecks look like minor derailments...)

Just want to thank all the dudes on here who feel the need to remind women who already walk through every day of their lives acutely aware of the fact that they could be, are, or were victims of sexual assault, harassment, or threat that they're not being "vigilant" enough (the implication, of course, being "-never- feel safe, ladies"). Thankfully, some of you have walked through rough neighborhoods a few times, so you totally "get it".

I also love the "I'd raise my daughter...blah blah" line. Don't worry, your hypothetical daughter would figure out how the world works real quick. How come nobody is saying "I'd raise my hypothetical son to be more "vigilant" when it comes to confronting people and environments that are hostile towards women"?

So are you guys just going to keep talking about this or actually DO something?

Sophia Lin wrote: 

Thank you. It's unfortunate his spot is so central for all climbers in EPC--he's portrayed positively in climbing media as the place to be and we all give him our business. If I'd know earlier, I'd not gotten one of his very strong margaritas. 

Quoting Sophia's post to remind everyone that perpetrators of sexual assault are often people who are respected and trusted by the communities they belong to, and who thus believe they will not face repercussions for their actions.

--

Also quoting this article from 2018 to draw attention to why we shouldn't normalize the role of alcohol in sexual assault:

Edgardo himself is a legend, and an absolutely essential part of Potrero Chico culture. ... He also pours a mean margarita, especially for ladies.

Normalizing the use of alcohol to coerce women into sex, and suggesting that being sexually assaulted is an inherent risk for women who choose to drink, perpetuates the problem.

Mark Paulson wrote: Just want to thank all the dudes on here who feel the need to remind women who already walk through every day of their lives acutely aware of the fact that they could be, are, or were victims of sexual assault, harassment, or threat that they're not being "vigilant" enough (the implication, of course, being "-never- feel safe, ladies"). Thankfully, some of you have walked through rough neighborhoods a few times, so you totally "get it".

I also love the "I'd raise my daughter...blah blah" line. Don't worry, your hypothetical daughter would figure out how the world works real quick. How come nobody is saying "I'd raise my hypothetical son to be more "vigilant" when it comes to confronting people and environments that are hostile towards women"?

because boys generally ARE taught these things growing up?  i grew up in a rough town, so it was basically part of everyday life to be looking over your shoulder. i think a lot of parents do a really terrible job of over-sheltering their daughters and bringing them up to be blissfully ignorant of the world in general (how money works, wearing a tiara full time as an adult, etc..).  it's unfortunate, but it is also the world we live in.

My girlfriend had spoken with a girl who had been drugged at this bar. While I have no direct proof, there is no doubt in my mind that the words on the street have validity. I may not be able to do very much in legality, but I will definitely not spend a dime at this place for anything - on drinks, gear or resole. Better yet, I will pass on this information to every climber, male or female, that I meet and discuss Potrero Chico with. 

Good to have a few different types of parents weigh in here, and probably not for the reasons they think.

Artem Vasilyev wrote:

Getting justice for things like this is hard enough in the States. 

I'm happy that if this thread serves any purpose, it's to allow members of the EPC community knowledge that helps keep everybody safe.

I used to reccomend to people to grab a margarita at that truck, and many of them are women. Not anymore - I'll tell them its a good idea to steer clear.

Ok, so 1% of the climbing "community" that reads these forums will tell their friends and we will get 5% of the "community" aware of a "rumor" that this guy's business (yet to be named?) is shady. That's getting nowhere fast.

Since y'all aint the enterprising mother fucka that I am, let me help you out. This place got an online presence? Facebook? If so, bomb it and take no prisoners. If not make a facebook page for it, stating the rumors and hearsay. Simultaneously, if it doesn't have a website take the name and make one, hit the seo so that anyone within 50 miles that types the first three letters sees "RAPIST DEN".

You're welcome.

I would say a popular thread trending with said title is making people aware. I'm not sure where percentages could be, but I bet the views on this page are somewhat substantial compared to many other threads.

MP threads in the past have gone viral and their contents fairly well known. It's not a bad idea to assault a facebook page that can be moderated and comments removed, however lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Your response isn't "better," it's just another avenue. 

I think bringing attention to the unethical and illegal actions committed by this guy is definitely a good first step. It certainly warns women and men to avoid this truck for their own safety, and if it encourages people to not patronize his truck that's helpful too. Regarding the "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".. I'm not exactly sure what that means but if it's referring to making a bigger deal out of this than it needs to be or risk impacting his business, well I think it's worth if it there are people's safety and a climbing community at risk.

It is interesting and shameful that there is a leader in the climbing community that is taking advantage of people.. you see it in a lot of communities so it's helpful to realize that climbing is not above this. I'm not sure if his truck has a facebook page but if you visit Potrero it is clear what the "margarita truck" is, there is only one right by the crag and it blares a ton of techno music. There are plenty of climbing guides online that reference this truck and what a cool guy this Eduardo is. So yea it is probably going to be a lot of work to figure out what is going on and dismantle this guy's reputation that he's built over time.

In terms of watching your drinks and being careful, as a woman I have certainly been told this and it's a real shame if I have to live in fear moreso that other people. Of course people should be aware in new situations, but overall Potrero has a relaxed international partying climbing culture (definitely not great for next morning sends) and it's horrible that Eduardo has taken advantage of this. If pointing out what this guy is doing ends up bringing attention to this, hopefully climbers can keep Potrero chill and safe and an enjoyable climbing destination. If women are simply told they have to watch their backs there (more so than we are already doing all of the time), then women and their friends will stop going there and the culture there will definitely suffer.

As an aside, this would be in addition to any other stories I have heard about violence against people and climbers in northern Mexico, which I have not experienced, but is another thing that creates fear for Americans to travel to Potrero. For international destinations it's hard to gauge what is and isn't a real risk, so far I haven't had to be more vigilant than I am in climbing areas in the US, other than putting my computer in a locker while I'm climbing.

I think regardless of your gender, if you are alone in a foreign country you should have a heightened sense of awareness. If you’re alone or in a group of people that you are not familiar with and you let your guard down you’re exposing yourself to risk.

In an ideal world we wouldn’t have to worry about these issues, but we do. I don’t like how whenever these issues are brought up people begin to argue about what aught to be. Instead we should focus on 1) how you can keep yourself safe if you choose to travel to these areas. 2) What we can do as a community to keep people more safe.

While I was in Potrero this past December with an all male group we ended up spending a long night with this individual. While we didn't experience any specific sexual assault type interactions we did experience a wide variety of sketchy situations and vibes from this guy. The night was wild enough for three grown men to feel lucky to make it out safe. If I had to make a judgment call purely from my experience, I would believe he is capable of such accusations. At the minimum, It's definitely worth being careful and staying in groups with people you trust and know.

In addition to general safety precautions people should take when traveling alone, I think there is merit in calling out specific bad actors in an attempt to actually improve the community that you are in. For example, when I go to Potrero I will be traveling with a group, I will have general knowledge of my surroundings because I've been there before, and I will be with my husband who will probably literally be with me 97% of the time. But just because I won't be as vulnerable myself, I think it's still worth it for me to tell other people what's going on, and I credit people who have added to this discussion on this Eduardo guy and bringing to light his bad actions. Actually I think that's what a lot of the recent movement around calling out sexual harassment has been trying to accomplishment: bringing attention to bad things that happen in an attempt to change expectations around it, versus relying on yourself so that things turn out right. I think it's more in line with your #2 comment in terms of working as a community and looking out for other people.

These threads are read by far more people than ever participate. Plus? This thread now speaks to far more than just EPC.

Thanks, MP. Hopefully more than you will ever know, will be helped by this thread.

Best, Helen

Brian Johnson wrote: Add a review here

Done. 

Jesus, I've seen more outrage activism from a bad experience at a gear shop on this site.

Kim K wrote: For example, when I go to Potrero I will be traveling with a group, I will have general knowledge of my surroundings...

lol, that's what they all say.  Have you or your husband ever been threatened by someone with a weapon or gotten in a bloody fight where someone went to the hospital?  You speak like you just finished watching some movies in a foreign travel class - like in high school.

Brian Johnson wrote: Add a review here

It seems to filter out all bad reviews. maybe because they are new? in any case, regardless of whats going on, according to google, as of now, this place is literally a 4 star stop with "strong" margaritas.  

Brian Johnson wrote: Add a review here

FYI, the negative reviews don't show up, just the one talking about how great his margaritas are