Maximum weight differential between belayer and climber on lead?

Old lady H wrote: EDIT to add, my remarks are addressed to Nick Norton, who resurrected this thread, not OP. 105 vs 190 is a lot, IMO. I've held 230+ to my (then) 135, and even just on top rope, it's a battle. 

I'm surprised you could hold them at all, even just taking them.  Somewhere around 100lbs, the friction over the biner is not enough for the belayer to stay on the ground.

I'd not routinely lead belay that much differential.

Good decision, at least without some sort of equalizer.

Old lady H wrote:

Simple, Frank. With the first clipped, the belayer is not trying to "spot" someone who is way heavier and taller, which could also be problematic. 

Locally, we have broken columns to start a lot of climbs outside, and bolt spacing that often isn't great. Stick clipping really helps. With a big climber, you can also get some stretch out of the rope, they'll start climbing with less slack, and maybe a bit shorter distance if they do fall.

We've also simply had the light climber do the first bit, lower, and then send the big guy to the top. More rope in the system and farther from the deck is safer, usually.

Inside, I use two big carabiners on an ATC, and pay attention to rope angle if I'm at a gym without friction wraps, for top roping. Closer to the wall (off from the fall line) changes the rope angle up top. Much easier to not be pulled off your feet than if you stand way back. I also use gloves, even in the gym.

The two carabineers merely add friction, which is helpful for management of the weight but they don't change the weight for a fall. Belayers still need to be cognizant of going airborne and what they may hit, Including essentially a refrigerator falling off the wall!

Almost all my partners outweigh me, but, not by the weight OP is talking about. I'd really think carefully, OP, if you want to risk this, and proceed very cautiously, especially if you are both newish to climbing and are headed outside.

EDIT to add, my remarks are addressed to Nick Norton, who resurrected this thread, not OP. 105 vs 190 is a lot, IMO. I've held 230+ to my (then) 135, and even just on top rope, it's a battle. I'd not routinely lead belay that much differential.

Best, Helen

I see. I would guess most climbers don't decide if they're going to do a climb based on whether they can be adequately spotted to the first bolt, but if they can do the whole climb.  "Lighter spotter, heavier climber" is mostly irrelevant, unless the crux is getting to the first bolt or piece.

Thanks for clarifying.

FrankPS wrote:

I see. I would guess most climbers don't decide if they're going to do a climb based on whether they can be adequately spotted to the first bolt, but if they can do the whole climb.  "Lighter spotter, heavier climber" is mostly irrelevant, unless the crux is getting to the first bolt or piece.

Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, well, come visit and see the crap I got here to climb. It gives a lot of people pause, and it's all I've had to learn on. John can certainly testify to the "sportiness" of Idaho bolting, and he was at the good stuff, lol! I had no idea such heaven existed, until I got to travel.

Frank, I'm guessing the latest query is someone climbing in a gym now. In which case, the gym will likely dictate what they can and can't do, anyway.

But? Then there's outside. It suddenly gets hugely more serious, even on top rope. As ornery and independent as I can be, I'm guessing I'll side way over to extreme caution for this gent and his fiance, as newish climbers.

Just don't want you to faint if I end up agreeing with ya, sir!

By the way, to anyone facing this? Try to get to a gym without a friction wrap, or get a top rope set on a lead anchor (if they will allow that) and see how that weight works out. If you have had a wrap going, you may be in for a surprise, even on top rope!

Best, Helen

Stick clipping the first bolt may help to not plummet on to a lighter spotter, but it doesn’t prevent them from an unnecessarily long fall resulting in a collision with the belayer or the ground. Stick clipping obviously does nothing higher on the route either, so all the same problems exist higher up on the route. A ground anchor (not an ideal option IMO) or equalizing the weight are the only real options. I’ve no real experience with the Ohm.

John Byrnes wrote: I'm surprised you could hold them at all, even just taking them.  Somewhere around 100lbs, the friction over the biner is not enough for the belayer to stay on the ground.

Good decision, at least without some sort of equalizer.

That was in a gym, without a friction wrap on the anchor!

The really "fun" one was outside, lowering a really big guy.....on a really skinny rope. Holy crap!

Climbing is a partnership. I always talk to my climber, especially new partners, and make sure we are both comfortable with the whole thing. Weight is just one consideration. I even have trad gear along, usually, for those "too sporty" climbs that are very common here....that catch visiting out of towners by surprise. And, if I'm the out of towner? Same thing. I make sure my partners understand my abilities and lack thereof. Including that I may not be able to reach the anchor on lead, but will haul if I have to, on top rope. At least I have plenty of practice cleaning while hanging. Sheesh.

Best, Helen

Sam X wrote: In the gym, where the bolts are completely straight in line, I have yanked my belayer to the second bolt with a relatively small fall. Usually I will feel two distinct phases, as first the rope comes tight and I decellerate rapidly, before accelerating again as my belayer is pulled up. Even if my tie in point is a foot above the draw, I can count on taking a good 15 foot fall. It does help if your belayer tries to give as hard of a catch as possible. My GF will reel in an armload of slack and literally "sit" back into the fall and it helps a ton.

How can you pull your belayer up to the second bolt?  Do they somehow pass through the QD on the first bolt?

Alicia Sokolowski wrote:

How can you pull your belayer up to the second bolt?  Do they somehow pass through the QD on the first bolt?

By not clipping the first bolt.

Alicia Sokolowski wrote:

How can you pull your belayer up to the second bolt?  Do they somehow pass through the QD on the first bolt?

I have seen  climbers either skip the first bolt entirely or unclip  the first after clipping the 2nd (thank you tight gym bolt spacing) just to give the belayer a longer flight path.