Belay Device Survey

We are a group of high school students conducting market research for our capstone engineering class. Here is the link to the survey:

https://forms.gle/fzNaQHSGk4GeH2Am7

Missing the  most  popular  belay  device.  ATC guide   bd  and petzle  esentualy  the  same  function.  

Braeden Fruchtman wrote: We are a group of high schooler students conducting market research for our capstone engineering class. Here is the link to the survey:

https://forms.gle/fzNaQHSGk4GeH2Am7

The answer is a glove anyway.

No ATC Guide option ????????

Which type of climbing do you practice most often? has some funky options.  Bouldering and auto belay dont require a belay device.  I'd want to know: Sport, Trad, Multi-pitch, Alpine, Ice.  Also, do you use double ropes or single? Rope diameter?  Do you use your belay device to rappel? Do you belay directly from your harness, belay station anchor? 

This survey needs some redesign if you want to get accurate results. As Chris said, add in Trad, Multi-Pitch, Alpine, and Ice. Allow a text box for "Other" under the question about what's preventing me from purchasing a GriGri. Also, add in ATC Guide. 

If you have had your hand pinched by an atc you fucked up and now know not to hold your brake hand within a few inches of the atc... problem solved. 

The only device you need is a HIP! HIP BELAY FTW!

I’m willing to pay around $20 for a pair mountain bike gloves that I retire to belay duty after a season or two of riding...but I’ve never heard of someone pinching their hand belaying before...I have heard of people getting their hair caught in their rap device though.

1)  mega juls are gross
2) GriGris are expensive
3) i think it's just a scary bedtime story that hands get sucked into ATCs (with proper use...gloves)

:D

Amber Beckman wrote: 1)  mega juls are gross
2) GriGris are expensive
3) i think it's just a scary bedtime story that hands get sucked into ATCs

:D

You've got #1&2 right.  I used to believe #3 until it happened to me & it hurt.  A lot.  I may have ugly cried.  

I took your survey for ya, but if you have time it's worth reposting after you do some editing. Good tips in this thread on how to improve it.

Also, yes hands can get sucked into belay devices. It sucks. In the best case scenario, the rope is not currently weighted, you notice immediately, pull your hand away, and suffer nothing worse than an unpleasant pinch. In the worst case scenario, you're on an overhanging rap as a brand-new inexperienced climber, get distracted by the view, and get the skin between your thumb and palm caught in your device. You can't unweight, can't pull it out, have no prusik loops, tie a prusik hitch one-handed with a dyneema sling which fails to grip, and then hang there as your weight continues to inch your skin through the belay device until it hits bone, and until your partner and another party have managed to improvise a rescue involving clipping into a new rope and getting hauled up a foot to release your hand from the device. Which now features the area between thumb and palm pancaked flat and spread out as far as the next knuckle. Super gross. Also nerve damage. Then a fun ER visit, and several weeks of PT, and slow return of sensation to the area over the next several months.  

So yes, the danger is real. But no, despite this experience, I wouldn't be interested in any engineered solution to this risk beyond gloves, if you choose to wear them, keeping your hands away from your belay device, and keep your attention on what you're doing, especially while rapping or belaying (for many reasons). 

Amber Beckman wrote: 1)  mega juls are gross

Figure 8.

The survey was not very thought out. You should have consulted someone who actually climbs indoor and out regularly and had them tailor the questions.

ATC / tube style can pinch. Happens a lot when teaching beginners as does hair getting stuck, usually doesn't even draw blood though. Severe cases are possible.

For A Great Time wrote: I’m willing to pay around $20 for a pair mountain bike gloves that I retire to belay duty after a season or two of riding...but I’ve never heard of someone pinching their hand belaying before...I have heard of people getting their hair caught in their rap device though.

It happened to me, also to someone in a group I was climbing with (obviously, not both at the same time).  Luckily for both of us, both in a gym, both quite minor, small blood blisters the only casualty.  I give the ATC a lot more clearance now, especially when the climber is much heavier than I am or at times like pulling in slack  when the rope isn't braked and is going to get yanked a couple inches until I can get it braked off.

ETA: but if the survey suggestion is, would this keep me from continuing to use an ATC, no.  I'll just use it more carefully.

Another reason to not buy a Grigri over using an ATC: needing another device or method of rappeling from routes. I would certainly forget I only had a Grigi and would be totally stuck at the top of routes!

I regularly catch mad whippers for climbers literally twice my weight, and in 20+ years of climbing have never been pinched by my ATC. Maybe if someone has't received adequate instruction, or if they're exceptionally careless it could happen? 

ATCs aren't listed because they are rappel devices

You can rappel with a grigri...

Jess B wrote: I regularly catch mad whippers for climbers literally twice my weight, and in 20+ years of climbing have never been pinched by my ATC. Maybe if someone has't received adequate instruction, or if they're exceptionally careless it could happen? 

I'll be the first to say that mine was a case of carelessness.  A once-in-a-million situation that I like to think I learned from & won't let it happen again.