The spot + belay technique?

Hey Mp,

The other  today I was climbing with a friend and while starting off the deck on a easy hand crack my partner tried a technique that I am not familiar with.  After placing my first piece, a 3.5 blue friend in solid sherman granite, and clipping the rope,  I look back to see my Blayer holding one hand out to spot me and the other hand on the rope. He continued this technique until I was out of reach, maybe 20’.

I have insider knowledge that a correct Carolina spot is done by turning your back to the climber and smoking a cigarette.

bkozak wrote: I have insider knowledge that a correct Carolina spot is done by turning your back to the climber and smoking a cigarette.

I thought that technique fell out of fashion with the rise of vaping.  

I do this sometimes, but I would say usually I use this technique more on sport routes with low cruxes (like below 15’) or if my partner looks shaky for some reason up to that point. After they clip the first bolt or piece I change to just belaying. Not sure if there’s a particular way to use this technique, but that’s mine personally.

He just didn't trust your placements. Weak

was he a complete n00b? 

That technique makes sense if there is decking potential, such as when dealing with sketchy gear right off the ground. But on easy ground, with solid gear at your waist- it makes more sense to just put all your attention into belaying.

A two handed spot with the brake hand in one hand can be nice when the terrain is challenging leading up to the first piece of gear. After that the focus really should go immediately to the brake strand as JCM mentioned.

It's hard enough to spot someone effectively with two hands. A one handed spot is pretty much bullshit.

It's all good as long as he jumps on the catch.

Carolina wrote:

I thought that technique fell out of fashion with the rise of vaping.  

Correct. The preferred method now is to take a hit between each armload of slack.

I have only done this/seen this done before the first bolt. Once you are clipped, my attention is all on belaying, not spotting.

 When I belay  I always spot with two hands until the first pieces placed then I assume every piece will hold and switch to delay but I’m acutely aware of that ground fall is still possible and so for the first three pieces I’m constantly evaluating how much rope is out and how high my partner is and imagining if I need to step back 1 or 2 paces in order to keep him off the ground if he falls on the third piece or the second piece so I think the most important thing to do during the first three pieces Is manage the slack in the system.  I Guess part of it is that I just don’t think I’m good enough to move quickly enough to get my hands on his shoulders if he does fall on the second piece so I really need to trust the system rather than my reflexes

Carolina wrote: Hey Mp,

The other  today I was climbing with a friend and while starting off the deck on a easy hand crack my partner tried a technique that I am not familiar with.  After placing my first piece, a 3.5 blue friend in solid sherman granite, and clipping the rope,  I look back to see my Blayer holding one hand out to spot me and the other hand on the rope. He continued this technique until I was out of reach, maybe 20’.

I continued climbing as normal but later on I asked him if I was being belayed or spotted? To which he replied both. At the point i noticed the belay + spot, was maybe 10’ off the deck with the piece at my waiste. Because I haven’t seen this technique before, I refrained from correcting him.

What say you mountain project? Is this a legitimate technique?  

The point of spotting is to direct someone on to a pad if you didn't have a pad any spot was completely pointless. TAKE AWAY HIS BELAY CARD!

In usual MP fashion, 

bkozak wrote: I have insider knowledge that a correct Carolina spot is done by turning your back to the climber and smoking a cigarette.

I've Chuckled

Tradiban wrote:The point of spotting is to direct someone on to a pad if you didn't have a pad any spot was completely pointless. TAKE AWAY HIS BELAY CARD!

I've Laughed

F loyd wrote:He just didn't trust your placements. Weak

I've Cried

Hobo Greg wrote:You can spot someone so they don’t hit pointy rocks on the way down, and to keep them upright and not hitting their head.

Learned allot

Vaughn wrote:It's hard enough to spot someone effectively with two hands. A one handed spot is pretty much bullshit.

....and Contemplated

djh860 wrote: When I belay  I always spot with two hands until the first pieces placed then I assume every piece will hold and switch to delay but I’m acutely aware of that ground fall is still possible and so for the first three pieces I’m constantly evaluating how much rope is out and how high my partner is and imagining if I need to step back 1 or 2 paces in order to keep him off the ground if he falls on the third piece or the second piece so I think the most important thing to do during the first three pieces Is manage the slack in the system.  I Guess part of it is that I just don’t think I’m good enough to move quickly enough to get my hands on his shoulders if he does fall on the second piece so I really need to trust the system rather than my reflexes

TJ Brannen wrote:I do this sometimes, but I would say usually I use this technique more on sport routes with low cruxes (like below 15’) or if my partner looks shaky for some reason up to that point. After they clip the first bolt or piece I change to just belaying. Not sure if there’s a particular way to use this technique, but that’s mine personally.

JCM wrote:That technique makes sense if there is decking potential, such as when dealing with sketchy gear right off the ground. But on easy ground, with solid gear at your waist- it makes more sense to just put all your attention into belaying.

Matthew Campbell wrote:I have only done this/seen this done before the first bolt. Once you are clipped, my attention is all on belaying, not spotting.

And possibly come closer to knowing the truth...

My take is seems like the belay + Spot technique is an elusive myth.  Unable to be reproduced in the real world yet still told in stories of delusional what if success.  

However, I'll like to leave the door open for someone who has succeeded in this technique to set the record straight and give us the textbook method of achieving a belay + spot.  

I've had a buddy fall onto me spotting while half belaying on a gri, after he blew the second clip on a sport route, and I watched a guy literally catch his girlfriend like he was holding a baby in the same situation. The guy was just fast with his girlfriend, and our beta for belaying that route was to pay out the slack and be ready to spot while clipping the second bolt because there's too much rope out to keep ya off the deck. 

There's times when it makes sense, and it's kinda dependent on close bolt spacing on short hard sport climbing. It sounds like this guy was just mimicking what he'd seen others do without taking the time to understand why people were doing it and when.  

It sounds like the correct answer he should have given was “neither.”