Witnessing people decking...

Yes.  Teach first to put processes in place to deal with being imperfect. It is not the whole thing but a good step. And as Greg D said, have some compassion for someone who gets hurt.

Do you think you now know the answer to the below question?  Edit: Or at least an answer that leads to the next question of “How?”...

Ryan Williams wrote:
I know it’s a dumb thing to say, but I just don’t see how this is possible. I mean, top roping and especially auto-belays are so fucking annoying that I can’t imagine planning to do it and not noticing that I haven’t.

Fucking up your tie in knot or not double backing, and then leading a pitch? I can sort of see how that is possible. But walking up to an auto-belay, climbing 30 feet without being clipped in, and then just letting go? How does that happen?

Bill Lawry wrote: Yes.  Teach first to put processes in place to deal with being imperfect. It is not the whole thing but a good step. And as Greg D said, have some compassion for someone who gets hurt.

Do you think you now know the answer to the below question?  Edit: Or at least an answer that leads to the next question of “How?”...

Of course I have compassion for the person who got hurt. I guess it was wrong to assume that it is implied. Sending good thoughts toward the hurt climber, his friends and family, and the witnesses. 

Bill and Greg, I appreciate the measured and educational responses. They have me thinking back to times when I was interrupted and made a mistake. Arguments with my wife come to mind ;-)

Ryan Williams wrote:

Arguments with my wife come to mind ;-)

I resemble that remark.

... albeit that my long time climbing partner is one of my sisters.  Sibling rivalry works in our favor most of the time , but not always.  :)

L Kap wrote:

I want to really emphasize this point from the research. What you have to really be on guard for is when you are INTERRUPTED while performing your normal routine. Your normal routine can include all the safety checks in the world, and if you are interrupted, especially while tired or distracted, your lizard brain can lull you into thinking the routine is completed. The article I linked about a hot car baby death talks about how the mother's routine was interrupted in multiple ways...the car seat was in a different place in the car because of a seat belt issue so she couldn't see it, the baby was sleeping and not making noise, she had to take her husband to work so she made a "drop off" and the diaper bag was in the back seat rather than in the passenger seat beside her where she could see it, and she got a phone call while she was driving. In her distracted brain, the "drop off" circuit was complete, the baby was safe, and she didn't think about it all day. If it had been just one or two of those interruptions, she probably would have caught it.

Apply the same principle to climbing. Are you tired? Hurt? Hungry? Thirsty? Distracted? Annoyed? Cold? Had to go back and re-do something you normally wouldn't do? Someone talking to you while you do something by habit like tie in? These are all things that interrupt the smooth functioning of routines, and mark a time when you need to be extra on your guard. 

Yes!  Quit chatting while tieing in and during other critical times.  If you notice you are chatting while tieing in, shut up and restart.  Continue chatting later.

They need to develop a thing you wear on your harness that has a proximity detector to a device on the autobelay tie in. If you separate by a few inches, a flashing light goes off identifying you as a forgetful person about to be a statistic. If you want to climb with the autobelays, you have to use it.

OK Tech Industry, go...

I don't care how many explanations I hear, I'll never understand how someone could climb over that triangle thing, not notice the absence of the usual annoying pull of the device as they climb, climb for 30 feet while stepping around the cord at their feet, and still not realize something is off.

It's not the same as leaving a baby in a the car. Unless someone literally climbed over the car seat when exiting and still did not notice the baby.

Beer-Muscled Has-Been wrote
It's not the same as leaving a baby in a the car.

Very much it is.  :)

a) As a parent, your non-dominant arm gets freaking strong.  Because it is that comfy ledge which supports that not so light grub worm.  So your dominant can manage keys / doors / etc...  So when he or she is not resting on the non-dominant, that arm levitates by itself to a non-ignorable-y annoying height making you wonder why you are not carrying your little one.

b) The backup to ‘a’: As a parent of an infant, he / she is your consistent mental crux.  For example, going to the bathroom is not a question of “Do I need to pee?” as it is “Am I able to pee now that there seems to be an opportunity?”  ... so tuned parents are to the condition of their pride and joy.

And yet that on-the-surface incredible thing happens ... to parents and to climbers ... over and over.

Tim Stich wrote: They need to develop a thing you wear on your harness that has a proximity detector to a device on the autobelay tie in. If you separate by a few inches, a flashing light goes off identifying you as a forgetful person about to be a statistic. If you want to climb with the autobelays, you have to use it.

OK Tech Industry, go...

I’m of the opinion that stuff like this just makes us dumber and more complacent. Humans are animals; we’re supposed be to vigilant to our surroundings.

Beer-Muscled Has-Been wrote: I don't care how many explanations I hear, I'll never understand how someone could climb over that triangle thing, not notice the absence of the usual annoying pull of the device as they climb, climb for 30 feet while stepping around the cord at their feet, and still not realize something is off.

It's not the same as leaving a baby in a the car. Unless someone literally climbed over the car seat when exiting and still did not notice the baby.

I agree with you, I’ll never understand the specific auto-belay thing. I feel the same, it’s not like leaving a baby in the car. I must say I’m much more terrified of doing that than I am of making a climbing mistake. 

But I am aware that my level and type of climbing experience is different than other climbers and it is impossible for me to know exactly what it is like to be them. I’m notoriously unprepared for most climbing trips I go on, often having to stop and buy things or just do without them. Sometimes essential things like an ATC or shoes. Some people (prepared people) probably just cannot inderstand how that might happen. 

Ryan Williams wrote:I’m notoriously unprepared for most climbing trips I go on, of ten having to stop and buy things or just do without them. Sometimes essential things like an ATC or shoes. 

**gasp**

;)

Beer-Muscled Has-Been wrote: I don't care how many explanations I hear, I'll never understand how someone could climb over that triangle thing, not notice the absence of the usual annoying pull of the device as they climb, climb for 30 feet while stepping around the cord at their feet, and still not realize something is off.

It's not the same as leaving a baby in a the car. Unless someone literally climbed over the car seat when exiting and still did not notice the baby.

I think what's going on, and this includes people that forget their babies in the car when they drive to work, is that people are caught in what's called fixed action patterns. We do repetitive things so many times that they are encoded into our memory and we will simply fall into the pattern. So we drive to the store and end up at work, forgetting that the same way gets us there and in doing those turns on the streets we get back into that pattern. It's this living on autopilot state of mind that is very very dangerous in things like climbing.

Tim Stich wrote:

I think what's going on, and this includes people that forget their babies in the car when they drive to work, is that people are caught in what's called fixed action patterns. We do repetitive things so many times that they are encoded into our memory and we will simply fall into the pattern. So we drive to the store and end up at work, forgetting that the same way gets us there and in doing those turns on the streets we get back into that pattern. It's this living on autopilot state of mind that is very very dangerous in things like climbing.

No, look.  Everyone is saying this but its not answering the question.  How do you climb a wall with the strap from the autobelay being in your way for more or less every move and not have something in your brain click?  I mean I could understand forgetting to tie in and then just start climbing (kind of) because after tying in for top rope the climb feels exactly the same as if you forgot altogether.  But there is literally something *in your way* the *whole way up* when you forgot to clip in to an autobelay.  It makes the climb anything BUT routine.

Again, I get that it *does* happen, and I can see forgetting the step of clipping in, but I (and many others here) don't understand how you are then able to climb 30+ feet while having a reminder in your face the entire way without realizing your mistake.

Matt Wilson wrote: I (and many others here) don't understand 

Stitch and LKap and Lawry have been trying to explain to you and those others how human attention works.

If you need further instruction there are many resources available, online and at your local library.

Even lacking that basic knowledge, exercise your imagination a little-
Perhaps the climber who failed to clip into the auto belay is focusing on the next hand and footholds, rather than looking around for something he/she believes is already clipped?
Perhaps the route doesn't exactly follow the line of the AB?
Maybe somebody moved the AB sling to lead a route and forgot to clip it back into the triangular shield? So not only is the sling out of position, the guard is down too?

I will bet that those who "don't understand" have spent little or no time with the autobelays.
Do a half a dozen sessions where you do 10-15 pitches in an hour and then tell me how impossible it is to forget to clip in.

I mean, how can so many people forget their shoes at the crag????
I just don't understand ;-) 

The key takeaway here is that these mistakes of attention can and do happen to all of us. Remember that. Your stupid brain is going to do this and it's going to piss you off. 

Becca Joy wrote:

I’m on a vacation in the southeast right now, it happened at a gym over here

Good god

Why would you vacation in the southeast right now?

Tradiban wrote:

This has happened consistently since autobelays came out. Some gyms can stomach it and some can't.

And, after you see a couple decks and a bunch of bone sticking out you get used to it, No worries.

TBH my two cents here is that witnessing something like that is traumatic (even if only mildly so). I don’t think you “get used to” trauma, you just develop coping mechanisms.

To the OP, I’m sorry you witnessed that and feeling unnerved is a totally natural reaction. The auto belay setup I’ve seen (only one) was clipped to a ground tether so it seemed damn near impossible to get on the route without clipping in. Big hazard signs too. Could education and altering auto belay set up be a solution? I honestly wish my gym had one so I could run laps without inconveniencing my belayer.
EDIT: having read more of the thread I see folks have addressed these questions a bit. It is confusing to me how this happens but clearly it does and our safety/risk management systems should take potential for human error into account. I dunno if there’s a solution, just sorry to hear that happened and that you saw it.

Keilyx Bay wrote:

TBH my two cents here is that witnessing something like that is traumatic (even if only mildly so). I don’t think you “get used to” trauma, you just develop coping mechanisms.

To the OP, I’m sorry you witnessed that and feeling unnerved is a totally natural reaction. The auto belay setup I’ve seen (only one) was clipped to a ground tether so it seemed damn near impossible to get on the route without clipping in. Big hazard signs too. Could education and altering auto belay set up be a solution? I honestly wish my gym had one so I could run laps without inconveniencing my belayer.
EDIT: having read more of the thread I see folks have addressed these questions a bit. It is confusing to me how this happens but clearly it does and our safety/risk management systems should take potential for human error into account. I dunno if there’s a solution, just sorry to hear that happened and that you saw it.

Yes. Getting "used to it" IS the coping mechanism.

If y'all don't understand why people forget to clip in (or whatever), go read some books. To keep it simple for you, people lack "presence" in their daily lives and forget lots of things constantly.

To prevent this from happening to you practice "presence" daily. Google it if you don't know how.

I believe it was Tom Robbins who wrote
 " the past and the future stand equally in the way of true authentic experience. "

Lack of "presence" indeed.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

....

I mean, how can so many people forget their shoes at the crag????
I just don't understand ;-)

Guilty of that one

Tradiban wrote:

Yes. Getting "used to it" IS the coping mechanism.

If y'all don't understand why people forget to clip in (or whatever), go read some books. To keep it simple for you, people lack "presence" in their daily lives and forget lots of things constantly.

To prevent this from happening to you practice "presence" daily. Google it if you don't know how.

Well it might be one coping mechanism, but I would argue that it is a coping mechanism that fuels toxic masculinity, among other maladaptive behaviors. It’s best to have a number of coping mechanisms, ideally ones that actually help process the trauma rather than “get used to it”. Some people on this thread have actually been giving good advice around this. Your take oversimplifies a complicated problem at the root of mental health.

I actually agree with your statement about presence, I just think you’re being insensitive in your presentation to say the least. Not that I would expect anything less from you based on what I’ve seen lurking on these forums in the past. Seems like you like to argue with people, maybe that’s another one of your coping mechanisms.