Using Cams Passively

Does any cam manufacturer state that cams can be used that way? 

As a rule, double-axle cams can be used passively.  The rest you have to use aggressively. 

As zoso said, most double axle cams can be placed passively. Here's the manual for the BD camalots: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-bdel/default/dw89efbbe8/files/M13747_A_Camalot_C4-ULC4_IS-WEB.pdf The second picture on the second row shows it in a passive placement and it lists the passive strengths further down.

Totems are a single or stacked axle cam and can't be used passively and is stated on their website as well.

Dan Gozdz wrote: As zoso said, most double axle cams can be placed passively. Here's the manual for the BD camalots: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-bdel/default/dw89efbbe8/files/M13747_A_Camalot_C4-ULC4_IS-WEB.pdf The second picture on the second row shows it in a passive placement and it lists the passive strengths further down.

Totems are a single or stacked axle cam and can't be used passively and is stated on their website as well.

Well that's humdinger!!! I guess that run out for me was a tad bit longer than I calculated given those "passive" totem placements were not ummm, well, ummm, $H!+, ummm, ahhh, whatever.... I give up. Too much too remember when placing gear. I quit dammit. 

Ah! Thanks. 

My mastercams have a passive rating. Most single axle cams can't umbrella. Maybe not all manufacturers rate them but most have stops built in.
But since single axle cams have a better rotation range they don't work as well passive because the whole head can rotate 90deg and slip out of some placements.

Had a friend who talked to a bd product designer about this. The designer said in 20 some years of climbing had never placed a passive cam lol i make a point to now, just to see the look of suprise in my followers eyes

On a serious note, when would you result to using a cam passively?

The only scenario I'm coming up with is:

• you've run out of passive/active pro that fits the feature you're trying to plug
• your cam(s) left on the rack are smaller than said feature in active mode
• you'd rather place something rather than nothing because run outs are not your thing

So you flip that suckers orientation and jam into the feature.

What am I missing in terms of when this use would come into play?

Some single axle cams have things called “cam stops.” I don’t exactly know what they are, but they allow them to be used passively in some situations.

Totems, on the other hand, if placed truly passively, are only being kept from umbrella-ing and flipping inside out by their trigger wires. Possibly alright for body weight, but I can tell you from experience that if the crack is too big for your totem and you take a lead fall, the thing will go totally inside out

When you get into the sizes of cams that are bigger than any nut someone would have, but the placement would fit a bit better than a cam,  is one instance. 

Never fallen on one placed passively. Be curious to hear of those that have. 

Jens K. wrote: Never fallen on one placed passively. Be curious to hear of those that have. 

Not what you're asking about but I started laughing when I read your post. Funny what triggers memories.

I was mucking around in my living room with the rack spread all over the carpet. I did a blind kneel down to the carpet move and my knee landed on a cam and sliced that sucker open... a good 2in. cut. With the ensuing carpet stain, I'm calling that route a redpoint and a totally passive cam placement.

Don’t place a cam passively. Think of a passive cam placement as you think of the air bags in your car. They might save your life but you also hope to god that you never have to use them.

Climb safe,
Mal

Rock Monkey wrote:

Well that's humdinger!!! I guess that run out for me was a tad bit longer than I calculated given those "passive" totem placements were not ummm, well, ummm, $H!+, ummm, ahhh, whatever.... I give up. Too much too remember when placing gear. I quit dammit. 

PM'ing you my address to send those Totems to.

Just a guess here but it seems like a fall on a passive cam would deform the lobes very easily. 

Malcolm Daly wrote: Don’t place a cam passively. Think of a passive cam placement as you think of the air bags in your car. They might save your life but you also hope to god that you never have to use them.

Climb safe,
Mal

Dunno, this was pretty reassuring to me:

the tag on x4s shows a rating for a regular placement and a rating for a passive placement

i''ve never placed cam passively but I like to know that if it walks into a pocket or whatever in the rock and becomes a passive placement it widll still work.  I've had to make some placements where there is like a few inches of rock then another crack/cavity that if the cam walked into it would just be in open space, but its not gonna come back out of that smaller than the open cam sized crack.

I put a completely tipped #3 camalot in the crack next to the knobs on P2 of west crack on daff dome. It fit in a nice pocket.

I think those knobs go on for 30-40 feet maybe, so it felt pretty nice !!

PS. I didn't fall so unfortunately no data pt to add ..... haha

Greg Miller wrote:

Dunno, this was pretty reassuring to me:

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/experience-story?cid=qc-lab-ultimate-strength-gear-testing

When a cam is placed in a geometrically perfect situation and all four lobes are loaded and supported equally, as in the above “test” the  results are comforting. In a real placement you may have diagonally opposed 2 of the lobes at uneven points. Or maybe three of the four lobes are wonky and only one is solid. I’d say that you’d be lucky if they held 5 kN. 

Jens K. wrote: Never fallen on one placed passively. Be curious to hear of those that have. 

I caught my buddy when he fell of a textbook passive placement of a DB cam (.75 I think it was). Worked just fine.

Wait you can place cams actively? Like....engaged? I thought everything just got placed like a nut! Aiding is about to get a lot easier