UIAA permits grigri tr brake hand slide.

I noticed that the UIAA is endorsing a brake hand simple one handed slide when top rope belaying with a Grigri (something I’ve done since 92’ when the grigri was released). My gym & most others do not allow this. They want the ridiculous drop down hand.  Also some mom & pop gyms freak out when they watch a climber pay out a big bight with the grigri if you are left handed. No spray please, I’ve taught some IFMGA clinicians  how to climb.

1. As a side note, the UIAA has also dropped the recommendation for a backup knot to a figure 8 tie in or a silly Yosemite finish for reasons I won’t tie up this thread with. 

I use this method with ATCs.  I also dislike the BUS method.  It just seems clunky and not as fluid.  I have gotten yelled at in the past (online, not by people I belay), but I stand by the method as being completely safe.  A key part of the motion is that you are regrabbing the rope at the end of the slide.  So even if the climber falls RIGHT as you 'let go', you were already in motion to tighten down on the rope again.

Jens K. wrote: I noticed that the UIAA is endorsing a brake hand simple one handed slide when top rope belaying with a Grigri (something I’ve done since 92’ when the grigri was released). My gym & most others do not allow this. They want the ridiculous drop down hand.  Also some mom & pop gyms freak out when they watch a climber pay out a big bight with the grigri if you are left handed. No spray please, I’ve taught some IFMGA clinicians  how to climb.

1. As a side note, the UIAA has also dropped the recommendation for a backup knot to a figure 8 tie in or a silly Yosemite finish for reasons I won’t tie up this thread with. 

So what? A gym is a private entity and may choose he method that is best for them, for various reasons. 

Don't be one of those whiners, who thinks they know best for a private business. Just belay the way they want you to, it's easy. If you don't like it, don't climb there.

I hate PBUS!

Though I do the two-handed hand-over-hand belay for TR (just easier to haul rope fast for a quickly-moving climber, and to do a super-tight take for the skittish “I want to feel some tension” noob),  Mo Beck has been doing the one-handed slide brake by necessity for as many years as she’s been climbing, and I’ll gladly take her belay over some noob PBUSing the shit out of their new TR belay card any day. 

what does the manufacturer who makes the device recommend???  (hint: it's not that method)

Can someone provide links to the content being referenced thanks

Petzl allows this for their non lock assist, the Reverso, too.  They call it the shuffle.

videos:  https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belay-technique--taking-up-slack?ProductName=REVERSO&Familly=Belay-devices-and-descenders

Greg D wrote: Petzl allows this for their non lock assist, the Reverso, too.  They call it the shuffle.

videos:  https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belay-technique--taking-up-slack?ProductName=REVERSO&Familly=Belay-devices-and-descenders

thanks for posting. i never remember petzl advocating for the slide method...

Hopefully gyms start to pick up on this. But I once had a gym forbid me from using a Trango Cinch because the guy didn't recognize it, so my hopes aren't high... It's not like it was a homemade belay device without certifications.

Greg D wrote: Petzl allows this for their non lock assist, the Reverso, too.  They call it the shuffle.

videos:  https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belay-technique--taking-up-slack?ProductName=REVERSO&Familly=Belay-devices-and-descenders

This is how I usually belay with my alpine up and on an ATC. I wouldn't necessarily trust a beginner to do it, though, because it can be difficult to slide your hand along the rope without letting go unless there is a little bit of tension in the rope. I don't teach my campers to belay like that because most of them would let go and drop their climbers.

PBUS is not the only safe method of belaying but IMO it is the most foolproof when it is taught well. But for somebody who already has the instinct and muscle memory to brake back by your hip and lock down your grip on the rope any time your climber falls, I don't see an issue. But this kind of muscle memory isn't learned overnight and takes many people months of belaying before they have practiced enough that they can do it reliably, every single time.  

Keep in mind this is the same motion one uses when they feed out slack quickly with an ATC when lead belaying, but in those circumstances you have some tension from you pulling out slack on the climber's strand.  

Cool, the UIAA only about 30 years behind the rest of the world.

Alex T wrote: Hopefully gyms start to pick up on this. But I once had a gym forbid me from using a Trango Cinch because the guy didn't recognize it, so my hopes aren't high... It's not like it was a homemade belay device without certifications.

So I'm working in a gym in Germany and we specifically don't allow trango chinch's in our gyms because they have a design flaw which to this date hasn't been really addressed by trango. I let people belay with pretty much anything, except the chinch (because the 2 major climbing clubs in Germany banned it from being taught because it has some serious safety issues when being used like in the manual (and then letting go of the break hand... But people are dumb so we just don't allow it.) Its a matter of risk vs reward. And for the 3 people per year who want to belay with a chinch,  we just don't allow it in general.

I gave a group with a chinch one of our grigris for free to use instead. 

To the belay methods:
When I'm teaching, I'm exclusively teaching the shuffle method. It's safe and easy to learn and your hand still never let's go of the break rope.
We teach with the grigri+. 
I'm using the shuffle method on everything I belay with (except when belaying with a HMS (for the non German speakers: I think it's called a munters hitch in English) when being in multipitches, alpine territory etc.)

I've seen people use the pbus in our gym and, at least in northern Germany, it looks really odd when you belay using that method (especially while using a grigri) because its something you just don't encounter very often anymore. 

i have used the slide method for over 30 years now with every type of belay device. it is more intuitive, natural, etc.  it's kind of funny, the older i get the more nervous i get about gym belay tests, because 16 year olds seem pretty freaked by it. my workaround is to ask what method the gym prefers, do that for the test, and then promptly switch back to the correct method.  :)

Slip slap slide may be "smooth" but its only designed to be used with the munter hitch. Some assisted breaking devices can be ok-ish with it depending on mechanism, but consult their literature.

Tube style devices (ATC, reverso, etc... teeth don't count as assisted breaking) should use PBUS. You must minimize the time that the rope is only getting friction from a 360 degree turn over a carabiner (inefficient pulley) and have a very good grip on it for that short amount of time. Many peoples burnt hands can attest to the fact that it is harder to hold someones weight with the rope at 360 degrees using these devices (more accurate to say regardless of tube style device as the device contributes almost nothing to friction at 360 degrees), especially with unexpected / unseen / unheard falls where the rope has a very fast jerk. Hands have also been burnt with PBUS and that TR only excessively taxing hand shuffle technique where neither hand ever touches the side of the rope going to the climber... in general with perhaps only a few fancy device exceptions:

Minimize time in the very low friction mode.

Desert Rock Sports wrote: Slip slap slide may be "smooth" but its only designed to be used with the munter hitch. Some assisted breaking devices can be ok-ish with it depending on mechanism, but consult their literature.

Tube style devices (ATC, reverso, etc... teeth don't count as assisted breaking) should use PBUS. You must minimize the time that the rope is only getting friction from a 360 degree turn over a carabiner (inefficient pulley) and have a very good grip on it for that short amount of time. Many peoples burnt hands can attest to the fact that it is harder to hold someones weight with the rope at 360 degrees using these devices (more accurate to say regardless of tube style device as the device contributes almost nothing to friction at 360 degrees), especially with unexpected / unseen / unheard falls where the rope has a very fast jerk. Hands have also been burnt with PBUS and that TR only excessively taxing hand shuffle technique where neither hand ever touches the side of the rope going to the climber... in general with perhaps only a few fancy device exceptions:

Minimize time in the very low friction mode.

The OP specified GRI-GRI. 

And the slide brake he is talking about is not the same thing as “slip slap slide”. 

Lena, I tried to cover multiple bases, not simply the question posed by the OP. If your talking about the style where the brake hand lets go completely, but stays in a circle and "hovers" up the rope to reset, then yeah, best not to use it, as it completely lets go of the brake hand and I can't see any company actually recommend such a practice. For quickly removing slack in a TR before a climber leaves the ground, sure, for actual belaying, no.

Rock sports, I don’t agree with everything in your post but can I add to your burnt hands sentence to include burnt mitts or gloves? I’ve free air  fallen (not glacier sliding) 170 & 110 feet in the alpine with my belayer later sporting melted gloves.

Alex T wrote: Hopefully gyms start to pick up on this. But I once had a gym forbid me from using a Trango Cinch because the guy didn't recognize it, so my hopes aren't high... It's not like it was a homemade belay device without certifications.

Alex, Although this is/was frustrating to you, kuddo's to the gym staff who owned up to not having been trained in the proper use of a Trango Cinch. Under these circumstances, I would have congratulated him/her on their honesty and good decision making. I would have encouraged him to seek training on the Cinch's proper use. Cheers 

Jens K. wrote: Rock sports, I don’t agree with everything in your post but can I add to your burnt hands sentence to include burnt mitts or gloves? I’ve free air  fallen (not glacier sliding) 170 & 110 feet in the alpine with my belayer later sporting melted gloves.

No spraying. Your rules. ;)

Jens K. wrote: I noticed that the UIAA is endorsing a brake hand simple one handed slide when top rope belaying with a Grigri (something I’ve done since 92’ when the grigri was released). My gym & most others do not allow this. They want the ridiculous drop down hand.  Also some mom & pop gyms freak out when they watch a climber pay out a big bight with the grigri if you are left handed. No spray please, I’ve taught some IFMGA clinicians  how to climb.

1. As a side note, the UIAA has also dropped the recommendation for a backup knot to a figure 8 tie in or a silly Yosemite finish for reasons I won’t tie up this thread with. 

lol! 

Laugh out louie