BD offset nuts (Not so new anymore)

jg fox wrote:

Their "laser speed lights" look less dependable then the Petzl version; plastic turn crank looks flimsy.  It would be one thing to copy and make improvements, whole another thing to copy and make a worse version.

I have a few,  I’m gonna agree the handle works fine but does have some play to it and does indeed feel more flimsy.   I was going to say I appreciate the larger steel area to get more sharpens but just realized the aluminum goes up to damn near the edge of the teeth.  

As as far as the offsets go maybe there are enough BD fanboys to make it feasible or maybe they’ll go on sale enough they’ll be purchased over the dmm?

Beean wrote:

I suppose every ice tool has a rep for breaking somewhere. Nomics and X-Dreams have had head twisting/rattling issues, not sure about the handle.

The thin pick is what makes some like Cassin tools, good for delicate ice, not so for mixed. 

I agree thinner picks usually help with ice though Petzl tools do quite fine without them.  For aggressive ergonomic grip tools like the X-Dreams, I would expect them to be just as adept at mixed as they are on ice and that may not be the case with their picks.  Black diamond picks are about as thick as petzl’s but not as hard so they suffer some deformation on mixed climbing, they climb well but need to be tended to afterwards.

I do give black diamond some credit for their tools, to my knowledge they don’t have little things that fail like the head wobbling or grips breaking. 

jg fox wrote:

I do give black diamond some credit for their tools, to my knowledge they don’t have little things that fail like the head wobbling or grips breaking. 

Just the ice around the pick haha. 

Can't say I've used any of them extensively, but I did just get one of the newer venom's for skiing and I am liking it so far. Good weight, seems to be burly enough. 

I don't think I've heard of any chronic issues with their tools either. 

jg fox wrote:

I agree thinner picks usually help with ice though Petzl tools do quite fine without them.  For aggressive ergonomic grip tools like the X-Dreams, I would expect them to be just as adept at mixed as they are on ice and that may not be the case with their picks.  Black diamond picks are about as thick as petzl’s but not as hard so they suffer some deformation on mixed climbing, they climb well but need to be tended to afterwards.

I do give black diamond some credit for their tools, to my knowledge they don’t have little things that fail like the head wobbling or grips breaking. 

The new nomics are going to come with the much thinner pur ice picks as I think camp has been eating their lunch with the x-dreams, mainly due to the overwide (for pure ice, imo) picks on the current nomics.  Bd does seem to just be copying some current stuff out there, but it will help lower prices to have multiple options and bd gear is easier to find than dmm, though I prefer dmm.  Also, nut are a pretty "mature" technology.  I doubt there is any innovation left to be had on them that won't be pure marketing.  Maybe if they could cut the weight in half?

Parker WEbb wrote:

Haven't looked into any specs on weight, but the BD ones felt a little heavier than the DMM ones... Haven't place any of the BD ones though.

Was curious so I added it up. The BD 7-11 offset set weighs 8g more than the DMM 7-11 offset set (203g vs 195g). You are correct, and apparently have a very perceptive sense of weight!

Weak Sauce..

Brassmonkey wrote:

BD=Bad Design

If they didn't have the twin axle, 4 lobe cam design they made I don't think they would have made it as a company. I own almost zero BD in all the climbing I do now.  Very few of their pieces are at the top of their individual class compared to others.  Everything is mediocre enough for the masses to buy. 

If Apple didn’t make the iPod they would of failed...

Quite a few companies have their one product that saved them.

Beean wrote:

Just the ice around the pick haha. 

Accurate.  I had the current vipers and the first few swings I thought I had the tool the wrong direction...  Fractured the ice like crazy.  Though, as my friends can attest I don't have the most delicate swing.

Nick B wrote:

The new nomics are going to come with the much thinner pur ice picks as I think camp has been eating their lunch with the x-dreams, mainly due to the overwide (for pure ice, imo) picks on the current nomics.  Bd does seem to just be copying some current stuff out there, but it will help lower prices to have multiple options and bd gear is easier to find than dmm, though I prefer dmm.  Also, nut are a pretty "mature" technology.  I doubt there is any innovation left to be had on them that won't be pure marketing.  Maybe if they could cut the weight in half?

Interesting news about the picks, I will have to look it up.  I've held off on buying nomics because I wanted that head wobble fixed and seriously contemplated Fuels because they seem burly enough to handle the abuse of dry tooling.  Concerning pick width, a good sharpened tool will help make up for that short coming, not as a great as reducing the thickness but better than nothing.

I'm curious why everyone keeps talking DMM, Wild Country makes the Superlight Offset rocks.  Way lighter.

jg fox wrote:

I'm curious why everyone keeps talking DMM, Wild Country makes the Superlight Offset rocks.  Way lighter.

Because the BD offsets are an exact clone of the DMM ones, not the WC ones.

I've never used the WC superlight offsets. Do you like them? 

.....and no-one has mentioned the DMM camalots yet, MP trolls are really losing touch

I believe I said this on another thread about these... I find it interesting and odd that Black Diamond is not competing on price with the DMM Alloy Offsets. $74.95 versus $69.95 full retail USD. For something that I assume is made in the USA, they should be less expensive than shipping from Wales with the DMM product. What is the incentive for people to try them if the known tried and true DMM Alloy Offset is less expensive in the USA? 

Regardless of what some marketing people seem to think, having a higher price does not mean to me it is of higher quality. Particularly since most of us know how well made the quality of DMM's hard goods are that they locally make in Wales. The Black Diamond product on their web page is not even being marketed as better in any particular way. I don't get it. Most climbers are going to buy what is reviewed best and less expensive. If Black Diamond wants to get their foot in the door they need to compete on price. 

I haven't used them so don't have anything to add about how well or poor they work. 

I also noticed that Black Diamond changed the coloring on their Hexcentrics to approximately match up with the cams in sizing for the color. That would explain why I saw their prior colored hexes on sierratradingpost. Of all the changes they could have made to their hexes, this was in my humble opinion the least useful. 

wow. it sounds like they muffed the one opportunity to improve on the dmm offsets (ie reducing weight).   ugghh.

Bought a set of these on sale, I'm looking forward to testing them out and reporting back. So far all I can say is that they are much rounder and smoother than the DMMs which supposedly will aid in cleaning, we shall see. Most of my partners have the DMM offsets so I thought it'd be worth trying them out. Also thought it'd be nice to easily distinguish between racks, no one wants to go home with somebody else's dirty nuts. 

well, looks like nobody actually bought and used these BD offsets, so here is my review. They are actually decently different than the DMM nuts. they feel like a shorter, more rounded version of the DMM. The sizes are very slightly different and they set a little differently due to the rounded edges. I personally rack both DMM and BD in the smallest 2-3 sizes on my medium nut biner and then peenuts, the 2 largest micro wallnuts, and standard BD #4 and #5 on my micro-small nut biner. I'd say if you are looking to double up on offset nuts, then get the BD to add some flavor to your DMM sizes. And yeah, they are a DMM imitation, but they do have their own flavor for sure.

John Clark wrote: well, looks like nobody actually bought and used these BD offsets, so here is my review. They are actually decently different than the DMM nuts. they feel like a shorter, more rounded version of the DMM. The sizes are very slightly different and they set a little differently due to the rounded edges. I personally rack both DMM and BD in the smallest 2-3 sizes on my medium nut biner and then peenuts, the 2 largest micro wallnuts, and standard BD #4 and #5 on my micro-small nut biner. I'd say if you are looking to double up on offset nuts, then get the BD to add some flavor to your DMM sizes. And yeah, they are a DMM imitation, but they do have their own flavor for sure.

Just took a little while but I got my response. Thanks John for the comparison.

I have a set. I like that they go a little smaller than the DMMs. The two sets play well together, IMO, as John noted above. The smallest BD offset fills the gap between the smallest DMM offset and the largest Peenut.

The smallest BD offset is slightly smaller than the smallest DMM offset, so it can fit in a few places where DMM can't. Worth buying just that one in my opinion.

Not to be contrarian but I was bored at work today so I popped over to BD and bought one.  Seems to be just slightly shorter than the gold.   Same width front and back.
(Is this the size difference you guys are referring to?)
 
Didn't get my calipers out but nearly identical other than the height of the nut.

My DMM offsets are "broken in" so maybe that's where the size difference is?

John Clark wrote:They are actually decently different than the DMM nuts. they feel like a shorter, more rounded version of the DMM. The sizes are very slightly different and they set a little differently due to the rounded edges.

I’ve been using these for about a year and the above pretty much sums up my experience. That being said, I would still rather have a double set of DMMs over the BDs as, in my experience, they don’t seem to set that well into granite cracks, which is the type of rock y mostly climb on.