More Tensleep Drama

If Gluey made a public apology, admitted he screwed up, denounced chipping/drilling real rock, and kept his shit in a gym/quarries where it belongs, I might actually forgive and somewhat respect the guy's talent. But after decades of debauchery and ignoring the ethics of the larger outdoor climbing community, I suspect that will never happen. I suspect he will never be able to admit to himself or anyone else he fucked up, just like he could never admit he never climbed Refiner's Fire. But he's old now, maybe he will finally be able to grow as a person and see the error of his ways?

Robert Hernandez wrote:

 This is a pretty nuanced issue and your obtuse comments amount to little more than terrorism of the climbing community. Either it's my way or no one gets to climb? I mean, talk about entitlement and self centered behavior; it's nearly the same level as Louie.   

Hell, at least Louie doesn't demand everyone do what he says or he's gonna get all climbing shut Down. As stupid as his chipping and gluing  is, and it is, it seems your more an enemy to my climbing than he is at this point. 

You're an utter halfwit. Trying to frame someone's opinion as some sort of existential threat to climbing boggles the mind, not to mention how you managed to work in all the high-emotion terms for your game of Buzzword Bingo. You should go back to twiddling your thumbs. "Terrorism" was particularly good. I nearly ruined my keyboard laughing at that one.

And now...A new episode of Sport Climbers Eating their Own!

This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.

Deez Nuts wrote:

Tradiban wrote:

Every nut is mine!!!

think the locals are trying to tell you something mr. Anderson.  Time to get your sweetheart and find your Way outa town.
Rumor has it theres a choss quarry outside Bosler, WY for you to play with, maybe make some “art”
And thanks to deeez for keeping em honest. I’ve been checking the thread for a while and you Deez have put some serious effort into learning these people.
“And we can have hot wings and bourbon for breakfast.....” then chip the choss pile all afternoon. 

Well that shut him up.

You're welcome MP!

https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/climbing-ranger-hired-to-address-concerns-in-ten-sleep-canyon/article_365e3f9c-da13-5808-8561-b172502e63b5.html

A climbing ranger has been hired for Ten Sleep

Khoi wrote: https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/climbing-ranger-hired-to-address-concerns-in-ten-sleep-canyon/article_365e3f9c-da13-5808-8561-b172502e63b5.html

A climbing ranger has been hired for Ten Sleep

Way late to the (drama) party there pal

From Wyoming Public Media yesterday

"As a first step for the management plan, the Forest Service granted the Bighorn Climbers' Coalition $22,000 to start surveying the canyon. Last year the BCC mapped trails and dispersed camping in the canyon. Currently, they've been working on the archeological survey."

Sure would like to know how this money is spent, as in who received it and for what.  Transparency is no way the long suit for BBC.
Also note there is no time frame for completion.

Technically any ‘other improvement’ is illegal in Bighorn National Forest without USFS permission. Our access trails are certainly illegal. I highly doubt a single rout in the canyon was bolted with permission. Our USFS will kindly keep a blind eye as long as we play nice. Therefore the first rule of Fight Club is you don’t talk about Fight Club. Police ourselves and don’t go crying to Big Brother when someone does play how you like. Put on your big girl pants and make nice and keep playing quietly in the woods, putting up more routes and sending to our hearts content.

FYI there’s plenty of private land with rock on it for sale in our beloved Red River Gorge for those who wish to put their money where their mouth is.
I hear rock lasts longer than a sprinter van. 

Lauren D Hollingsworth wrote: Technically any ‘other improvement’ is illegal in Bighorn National Forest without USFS permission. Our access trails are certainly illegal. I highly doubt a single rout in the canyon was bolted with permission. Our USFS will kindly keep a blind eye as long as we play nice. Therefore the first rule of Fight Club is you don’t talk about Fight Club. Police ourselves and don’t go crying to Big Brother when someone does play how you like. Put on your big girl pants and make nice and keep playing quietly in the woods, putting up more routes and sending to our hearts content.

FYI there’s plenty of private land with rock on it for sale in our beloved Red River Gorge for those who wish to put their money where their mouth is.
I hear rock lasts longer than a sprinter van. 

Yes.

Lauren D Hollingsworth wrote: Technically any ‘other improvement’ is illegal in Bighorn National Forest without USFS permission. 

Technically, given the language used, even stepping foot on National Forest land is a violation of their rules as they pertain to property, and has been since 2015. 

Damaging means to injure, mutilate, deface, destroy, cut, chop, girdle, dig, excavate, kill or in any way harm or disturb.     

§261.9   Property.
The following are prohibited:
(a) Damaging any natural feature or other property of the United States.
(b) Removing any natural feature or other property of the United States.
(c) Damaging any plant that is classified as a threatened, endangered, sensitive, rare, or unique species.
(d) Removing any plant that is classified as a threatened, endangered, sensitive, rare, or unique species.
(e) Entering any building, structure, or enclosed area owned or controlled by the United States when such building, structure, or enclosed area is not open to the public.
(f) Using any pesticide except for personal use as an insect repellent or as provided by special-use authorization for other minor uses.
(g) Digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying, or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resource, structure, site, artifact, or property.
(h) Removing any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resource, structure, site, artifact, property.
(i) Excavating, damaging, or removing any cave resource from a cave without a special use authorization, or removing any cave resource for commercial purposes.
[46 FR 33520, June 30, 1981, as amended at 49 FR 25450, June 21, 1984; 51 FR 30356, Aug. 26, 1986; 59 FR 31152, June 17, 1994; 80 FR 21629, Apr. 17, 2015]

From: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=1b5d5cf8ac6152eaa74f3994b92605ca&ty=HTML&h=L&r=PART&n=36y2.0.1.1.20#36:2.0.1.1.19.1.33.15

Sorry, but that needs a little more clarity. These are Public Lands, belonging in the public trust. To make it potentially illegal to even step foot on them is taking things a step too far. Also, these rules have been in place since 2015, so they are nothing new.

James Woods wrote:

This is more or less what I wonder about. How come it seems that gluey can continually shit the bed in climbing areas and not get it? Dude, glue-man, put your ego away and apologize. 

After seeing the drilled pockets and the manufactured crag during the week I was in ten sleep, and yeah I did hike up to funky town to see it first hand,  I am glad that a crew of locals chopped and padlocked his routes. If someone is going to vandalize the rock like that, that persons routes should be chopped and that person (and persons who look up to that person) will hopefully learn that drilling, chipping, and wholesale manufacturing is wasted time and money.  It really is hard to describe a wholly manufactured crag cause the people who haven't seen it don't understand the extent of the damage done.

Good for Aaron Huey for calling out gluey luey.  Classic good vs evil shit right there.  Huey's guidebook guidebook not only calls out the gluey routes but a few other routes that were chipped back in the day too.  

Definitely gives some good history of older routes with some drama surrounding them back in the day (He Biggum, comes to mind) 

Lauren D Hollingsworth wrote: 
FYI there’s plenty of private land with rock on it for sale in our beloved Red River Gorge for those who wish to put their money where their mouth is.

Wait really? Got any links to ads? Genuinely curious.

caesar.salad wrote:

Wait really? Got any links to ads? Genuinely curious.

I wouldn’t say there is “plenty” but land definitely pops up pretty frequently in the area with cliffline. Whether or not it’s chiss is a other story. 

I don't think that the climber' trails constitute improvements.  Merely walking the same way thru the woods, thus creating a path like the deer do isn't constructing anything.  Fisherman do the same thing along streams and thus create trails.  One would hope that the USFS would have better uses for their limited resources than worrying too much about climbers and their impacts.  It is unfortunate that climbers have had to resort to buying so much land in the Red to be able to have new routes.  The national forest there is hardly pristine wilderness in need of draconian protection and should be used by the taxpaying Americans who like to climb.  Maybe the USFS in KY should be more responsive to the people who are paying their salaries.  

James Woods wrote:

Cole you started this thread. I'm curious as to your response to the 20+ pages that have occurred after your original post. 

Perhaps this thread is a big part of the problem, that has broadcast the controversy in Ten Sleep too loudly & hyped it too much.  Funky Town is a small part of Ten Sleep. The USFS banning bolts in Ten Sleep is huge. What next?  It's amazing how climbers can't seem to get along.   The Climbing community seems to be its own worst enemy.   I'd recommend not starting another thread like this one & maybe deleting it.

I don’t think that Mark is defending Anderson. Nobody is. Mark’s point is that it may not have been in the community’s best interest to blow the whole thing up because of one guy, no matter how prolific he was, as there were probably better ways to handle this. The end result was a bolting ban for the entire Big Horn National Forest. How long before NF lands all over Wyoming etc. adopt this policy?  Think about that.