Trad with lighter belayer

Hey guys,

I'm planning on bringing a much lighter partner up some multipitch climbs and was wondering if anybody had any good tips on dealing with the drastic weight differences (I'm 180lbs, she's 95) in catching falls. I obviously plan on building bomber multi directional anchors but I was wondering if there was more I could do to limit the impulse on the anchor and my belayer. Any tricks ?

First thing that came to mind was maybe using a kong kisa ( amazon.com/KONG-Aluminum-Ki… ) in my partners "connecting to the master point" setup.

Also totally might just be overthinking this so any real life anecdotes out ther would be helpful also.

-Brian
 

If the belay stances are bolted, then the best option is a direct belay off the anchor with a Munter hitch, which totally takes the weight mismatch out of the picture.  (A light belayer, whose grip strength is going to be to some extent proportional to body weight, might want to brake with both hands.)  Some trad gear setups will work too.  In any case you will need good upward directionals, and if you have these the Munter method will work in many trad configurations as well.

I am 190 and my daughter 95lbs, and she catches me just fine. We too use multi directional anchors, but the most important things are 1) her stance and preparedness to get pulled up and into the rock 2) we always try and anchor her/add weight somehow: ground anchor, backpack with the water, or at a belay station, slot a cam into a crack under her feet, with a sling attached to her belay loop; sling a rock 3) dont take some swan dive off a cliff. 

Further to rgolds advice, watch this: Should you change the way you belay?

slot a cam into a crack under her feet, with a sling attached to her belay loop

That's the key right there. 

If you just build a multidirectional anchor with a 4th piece for an upward pull 1 or 2 feet under the rest of the pieces and tie them all together, the lighter belayer will still get launched. They'll travel upwards twice the length of their tether, then another foot or two until the anchor sling/cordelette comes tight on the lower piece.

Having a cam at her feet to her belay loop with a sling adjusted so there's only an inch of slack will keep her almost on the ground/ledge (the inch of slack adds some dynamics to the belay, but if all the placements are super solid you could have no slack and the sling/cam would take the force not her body, as mentioned you could have her belay directly off the anchor but I like people just belaying like they normally do). Think of what direction the pull from the lead rope will come and put the cam at her feet directly below that if possible. Ideally she'll only get lifted straight up an inch. Not pulled into the rock.

And of course use a "jesus nut" as John Long calls it. A super solid piece just above the anchor, the leader clips into before there is any possibility of falling. So if the leader falls just above the anchor it's onto the nut not onto the anchor or worse yet onto the belayer's harness.

And belay with a gri gri or similar. It will help her catch a fall and if she gets knocked off her stance and loses her grip on the rope it should lock up.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Rich gets called a noob every 75 years whether he deserves it or not.

Ken Nichols wrote:

Weight mismatch? If you cant belay with a mechanically advantaged tube device you have no business belaying. Weight has no bearing here noob.  

You're out of your element Donny.  Tell Ellanor that after you watch this video. Keep in mind there is a bolt above the boulder before the ledge she flies up to that the leader skipped because he knew she could get pulled into it. Tell me how this would feel if she was cloved into an anchor. Tell me your anchors are set to protect properly for that much upward pull while we're at it. 

https://rockandice.com/videos/weekend-whippers/weekend-whipper-belayer-rocket/ 

Señor Arroz wrote:

Rich gets called a noob every 75 years whether he deserves it or not.

Well, obviously, I'm going to take Ken Nichols' word on that way before rgold's.

I mean the guy's on MP since 2014. I didn't even know MP existed back then. He's quick on the draw, that's for sure.

What, you say? He's been utterly inactive since joining? Bullshit I say! He just didn't have time for meaningless interventions on petty topics! He was sponging up all the data the whole time, lurking in every thread's corners, taking it all in. While we wasted our time in small talks & climber's slang, he was studying rgold for realzzzzz. Only HE could see rgold's imposture of competence for what it was.

I'm glad I've been enlightened!

Nick Drake wrote:

You're out of your element Donny.  Tell Ellanor that after you watch this video. Keep in mind there is a bolt above the boulder before the ledge she flies up to that the leader skipped because he knew she could get pulled into it. Tell me how this would feel if she was cloved into an anchor. Tell me your anchors are set to protect properly for that much upward pull while we're at it. 

https://rockandice.com/videos/weekend-whippers/weekend-whipper-belayer-rocket/ 

I’m thinking he trolled y’all. If you have heard of that name before, it is likely not his real name.

But keeping consistent with some recent threads:
The belayer getting launched, hurt and dropping the leader is not a thing. There are many examples of the ground belayer getting launched and sometimes negative consequences. But, let’s hear about the multi pitch scenarios. I out weigh one of my partners by 100 lbs and fall on her periodically . No problem. 

Greg D wrote:

The belayer getting launched, hurt and dropping the leader is not a thing. There are many examples of the ground belayer getting launched and sometimes negative consequences. But, let’s hear about the multi pitch scenarios. I out weigh one of my partners by 100 lbs and fall on her periodically . No problem. 

But then would you say you do not need to pay any particular consideration to that weight imbalance? E.g. everything is just the as same if it were similar weight with another belayer?

One more time for the people in the back:

Fixed point belaying works and is a reasonable strategy for multiptich climbing with weight disparities, difficult moves off the belay, etc. It does require planning for  upward pull, but this can also be accomplished after the second arrives at the anchor if necessary. As noted upthread, you can just place a low piece and clip it in. I prefer to use the backside of the belayer's clove hitch since it's easily adjusted and costs no extra gear.

For how to do this technique, check out the video linked above, Google for other videos (the ACMG has one), and check out these slides:

http://staff.weber.edu/derekdebruin/fixedpointbelay/Fixed%20Point%20Belaying%20Slides.pdf

Franck Vee wrote:

But then would you say you do not need to pay any particular consideration to that weight imbalance? E.g. everything is just the as same if it were similar weight with another belayer?

One absolutely needs to pay attention to weight disparities. I pay close attention to these situations and do take steps to mitigate. 

Greg D wrote:

I’m thinking he trolled y’all. If you have heard of that name before, it is likely not his real name.

But keeping consistent with some recent threads:
The belayer getting launched, hurt and dropping the leader is not a thing. There are many examples of the ground belayer getting launched and sometimes negative consequences. But, let’s hear about the multi pitch scenarios. I out weigh one of my partners by 100 lbs and fall on her periodically . No problem. 

I can’t tell on this site anymore what’s a troll and how often people are just being stupid. Mostly because the trolls aren’t really funny.

Buddy with a similar weight disparity to you and your partner took his gf for a good ten foot ride up off a belay ledge. He had a piece for upward pull, nothing really noteworthy happened because of that.

Belayer displacement can turn safe falls into ledge falls, even with no loss of control.

​This kind of thing.​​​

Thanks for the tips and (lively?) discussion. Big take away was essentially slotting an upwards price tied directly into the belayers harness to limit upwards displacement during a fall.
I'll still debating picking up a kong kisa to use in series with that connection to disapate some energy

Brian M wrote: Big take away was essentially slotting an upwards price tied directly into the belayers harness to limit upwards displacement during a fall.

I'd recommend making learning about fixed-point aka direct anchor belaying a takeaway, too.

Don’t fall.

Ted Pinson wrote: Don’t fall.

I tried this once and it didn't work.

@Derek D., that slideshow is very helpful, thanks.