Tahquitz Helicopter Rescue 7/29 (Fingertrip p1)

After skimming this thread, my impression is the most important points are: gear was not extended, and that a bunch of nuts ripped, no ??

I.E. nuts are less multi-directional than cams ? Or at the very least, they must be placed with care and the direction of load carefully considered?

I don't place a lot of nuts but "Tradiban" himself called me out on a shitty nut placement on Left Ski Track and I sure as hell appreciated it!!

Kevin Mokracek wrote: As to the Gumby helmet comment.  I’ve been climbing for 40 years without a helmet.  Two years ago I started wearing one all the time on all climbs.   I’ll take the hit on being called a Gumby.   I’ll never tell anyone else except my kids to wear one.   I can’t think of a single good reason why I shouldn’t wear one.  
I’ve never read any accident reports that said the person would have been better off without a helmet though I am sure there is some freak accident somewhere where that’s true.  
As an aside, any older climbers on blood thinners should really think seriously about wearing a helmet, it doesn’t take much of a hit to get a bleed going in your skull and your f$&@ed.  
Flame on.  

"I can't think of a single reason why I shouldn't wear one" - exactly.

Ellen Kirk wrote: "I can't think of a single reason why I shouldn't wear one" - exactly.

Well, there was that time a few months ago when bees kept flying into my helmet to sip at my sweat, so I took it off. But, yeah.

jt newgard wrote: After skimming this thread, my impression is the most important points are: gear was not extended, and that a bunch of nuts ripped, no ??

I.E. nuts are less multi-directional than cams ? Or at the very least, they must be placed with care and the direction of load carefully considered?

I don't place a lot of nuts but "Tradiban" himself called me out on a shitty nut placement on Left Ski Track and I sure as hell appreciated it!!

Perhaps, but (IMO) Bomber Nut >> Bomber Cam

Hamish Malin wrote: Any/all gear can rip if not placed properly.

This is why i only free solo

Interesting helmet discussion.  Years ago, I started wearing a helmet, at first only when caving.  Later I wore one more and more requently when climbing, and especially when responding as a SAR volunteer.  I really got religion when we ran into a victim (recreational climb became a big deal SAR instantly) whose helmet was shattered right in front.  His forehead had significant contusions and undoubtedly the helmet saved his life.  I have hauled out other remains of people who would have been much better off with a helmet and might even be living today.  

A nnclimbing example.We were doing a fossil dig at the base of a steep alluvial bank, just full of rocks poised to descend. I required everyone within a marked zone to wear a climbing helmet, not a silly construction hardhat.  No problems until the very last day, when a falling cobble did indeed hit one of us on the head.  The incident probably would not have been fatal, but we would have had to treat an injury, and, being properly cautious, called for some sort of evacuation..  As it was, no problem at all....

A helmet is not a panacea, but it does give its wearer better chances.

Annnnnnnnnnnnd we're back to helmets ........ FINE!

All the best to the fallen climber. Get well soon.

Next time I'm sure you will take great care in placing good gear. Not falling is always a good option too :)

jt newgard wrote: Annnnnnnnnnnnd we're back to helmets ........ FINE!

All the best to the fallen climber. Get well soon.

Next time I'm sure you will take great care in placing good gear. Not falling is always a good option too :)

Don't give in that easy to the helmet bullies on MP JT. 

You got a helmet?!

REVELATIONS! A helmet protects your noggin. Who knew?!!?

jt newgard wrote: After skimming this thread, my impression is the most important points are: gear was not extended, and that a bunch of nuts ripped, no ??

Yes.

I.E. nuts are less multi-directional than cams ? Or at the very least, they must be placed with care and the direction of load carefully considered?

Yes, but more "they must be placed with care and the direction of the load carefully considered" than "less multi-directional".

I don't place a lot of nuts but "Tradiban" himself called me out on a shitty nut placement on Left Ski Track and I sure as hell appreciated it!!

I carry a set of nuts all the time, they have their time and place but cams are faster and more versatile pieces. 

Nuts are the poor man's protection, get cams. 

As usual there's alot of factors at play in this accident but I don't think I can stress enough that taking the time to place good pro is key. Also, the "reverse zipper" effect could have easily ripped the one piece left over in this case, I think it held on because he hit a ledge at the right moment.

Any updates on Jame's condition?  Hoping for a full and complete recovery.

Hamish Malin wrote:

Perhaps, but (IMO) Bomber Nut >> Bomber Cam

Any/all gear can rip if not placed properly.

To clarify....  (Bomber Offset Nuts >> Bomber BD Nuts << Bomber Cam) and (Bomber Offset Nuts = Bomber Cam)

Bomber = Bomber. It's a binary thing. Either gear holds or it doesn't. 

How often do people extend cams? I almost never do it unless rope drag is a consideration. Is that wrong? 

Zachary K wrote: How often do people extend cams? I almost never do it unless rope drag is a consideration. Is that wrong? 

Nearly always (unless im out of slings)

Zachary K wrote: How often do people extend cams? I almost never do it unless rope drag is a consideration. Is that wrong? 

They certainly walk more without extension. I usually do not only if I feel like I am about to fall and do not have time or I am out of Alpine draws. 

Señor Arroz wrote: Bomber = Bomber. It's a binary thing. Either gear holds or it doesn't. 

Ok, but I’ll trust a good nut placement (offset or not) over a good cam placement any day.  I feel that I can manage any downside due to nut directionality better than I can completely ensure that a cam won’t shift, even when properly extended.  I’ll admit that I learned on nuts (couldn’t afford to buy a rack of cams outright, let alone doubles) and that probably affects my preference.

Hamish Malin wrote:

Ok, but I’ll trust a good nut placement (offset or not) over a good cam placement any day.  I feel that I can manage any downside due to nut directionality better than I can completely ensure that a cam won’t shift, even when properly extended.  I’ll admit that I learned on nuts (couldn’t afford to buy a rack of cams outright, let alone doubles) and that probably affects my preference.

It's hard to feel anything but 100% on a well-placed offset nut.

Zachary K wrote: How often do people extend cams? I almost never do it unless rope drag is a consideration. Is that wrong? 

On the route in question and virtually every other moderate at Tahquitz, rope drag is always a consideration.

Link to photo of pitch 1 Fingertrip