Really? We can't talk about where gear is manufactured?

that guy named seb wrote: American gear guide your rather ill-informed if you think people's wages are the reasons why they move the manufacturing abroad, especially China. 

Thanks, I'm always willing to hear and learn more. I wasn't saying wages are the sole reason for outsourcing. Lower labor and environmental standards encompass far more costs than just wages. I have traveled in China and also acknowledge that China has many high paying jobs, and incredibly advanced "showoff" cities like Shanghai and Beijing. I understand that manufacturing juggernauts like China now have great expertise and that offsourcing a companies manufacturing to such countries will likely allow those factories to simply produce their own competing brands (or fakes... daxueconsulting.com/counter… ) that will eventually eat the outsourcing companies' lunch.

that guy named seb wrote: American gear guide your rather ill-informed if you think people's wages are the reasons why they move the manufacturing abroad, especially China. 

you are ill informed if you do not think wages are indeed a contributing factor...

GearGuy 316 wrote:

Thanks for the worthwhile add to the thread and putting up this website! Very useful information on US Made Gear all in one place!

I think you should also add Reviews of some of these US Made Gear that you use and how they compare to similar gear from other Brands that pride themselves on human and environmental safeguards, based on discussions with the people you climb with that use these other Brands. 

Thanks, I do have some in depth reviews on the site like my Tarptent Double Rainbow, CiloGear 45L backpack, and Misty Mtn Cadillac harness (my friend's review) but agree that I need more and in one easily accessible in-depth review directory. In depth reviews tend to take me a lot of time, especially since I want to test long term durability which practically no review site does, including outdoor gear lab. I think I should create a user-report section where anyone can report their impressions of their personal American made gear.

 *pure speculation* I believe all the companies, salewa, bd, wildcountry, etc are actually moving to the exact same factory, this factory is probably one of the most advanced hot forging aluminium forging facilities open to contracts outside of China, I'd imagine atleast on par with dmm and probably considerably larger.

curt86iroc wrote:

you are ill informed if you do not think wages are indeed a contributing factor...

Wages and overall worker compensation are likely THE biggest contributing factor to outsourcing. When a company can pay a poor Bangladeshi factory worker $95 a month and without modern benefits, greed takes hold.

thats my point

that guy named seb wrote:  *pure speculation* I believe all the companies, salewa, bd, wildcountry, etc are actually moving to the exact same factory, this factory is probably one of the most advanced hot forging aluminium forging facilities open to contracts outside of China, I'd imagine atleast on par with dmm and probably considerably larger.

That could possibly happen, as it does for many products made in China. I'm not saying products made in those factories are materially inferior, I'm simply saying I'd rather buy a Welsh made DMM product or American made BD Cam over the same one made elsewhere in a factory that isn't owned by the brand that results in laying off that companies loyal employees to earn an extra greedy buck.

curt86iroc wrote: thats my point

I know, I was just agreeing with you. I should have quoted the post you had quoted.

Artful Dodger wrote:

This, also whilst dumping waste into the air or nearby rivers or oceans.

Yep, the environmental costs are also huge. Until you get West into the mountains and Tibet, the Chinese air quality is horrible, as are the rivers.

AmericanGearGuide wrote:

I know, I was just agreeing with you. I should have quoted the post you had quoted.

2 people have agreed on MP?  this calls for celebration, i think :)

curt86iroc wrote:

you are ill informed if you do not think wages are indeed a contributing factor...

They're a contributing factor but the fact of the matter is, you go where you can make your goods if theres nowhere in Bangladesh that can make your product you go to veitnam. If you can't do it in veitnam you do it in China if not China Taiwan, it goes on like that until you get to European and US manufacturing. If you're a company that gives a shit though, it reverses the order of countries. 

that guy named seb wrote:  *pure speculation* I believe all the companies, salewa, bd, wildcountry, etc are actually moving to the exact same factory, this factory is probably one of the most advanced hot forging aluminium forging facilities open to contracts outside of China, I'd imagine atleast on par with dmm and probably considerably larger.

I own A LOT of Wild Country Helium biners that were made by DMM.

I also own a lot of Wild Country Helium biners that were made in that Taiwanese factory.  I also own A LOT of other biners and cams that came from that same factory - assuming that there isn't another factory in Taiwan that manufactures climbing hardware...

That Taiwanese factory has a ways to go before its hot forged biners are on par with DMM's in terms of quality, feel, and finish.

Khoi wrote:

I own A LOT of Wild Country Helium biners that were made by DMM.

I also own a lot of Wild Country Helium biners that were made in that Taiwanese factory.  I also own A LOT of other biners and cams that came from that same factory - assuming that there isn't another factory in Taiwan that manufactures climbing hardware...

That Taiwanese factory has a ways to go before its hot forged biners are on par with DMM's in terms of quality, feel, and finish.

There's plenty of companies in Taiwan making carabiners, Hephasus (sp?) Handy Man, Vinox, King Snaps to mention a few.

Jim Titt wrote:

There's plenty of companies in Taiwan making carabiners, Hephasus (sp?) Handy Man, Vinox, King Snaps to mention a few.

Good to know - thanks!

I saw the King Snaps booth at OR.  I didn't know whether or not they are the people who make Metolius biners, Wild Country hardware, Grand Wall hardware, and BD's new lineup of biners.

Look familiar?
After checking out handymans site I think its pretty clear they're going to be making most of the industries climbing gear. 

Khoi wrote:

Good to know - thanks!

I saw the King Snaps booth at OR.  I didn't know whether or not they are the people who make Metolius biners, Wild Country hardware, Grand Wall hardware, and BD's new lineup of biners.

Having introduced you to the exotica of Taiwanese gear production you should also know that Alu Design (the parent company of Climbing Technology) and Kong-Bonaitti are major players in the business of manufacturing for other companies. (Kong is the worlds largest karabiner manufacturer if I remember rightly).

Jim Titt wrote:

Having introduced you to the exotica of Taiwanese gear production you should also know that Alu Design (the parent company of Climbing Technology) and Kong-Bonaitti are major players in the business of manufacturing for other companies. (Kong is the worlds largest karabiner manufacturer if I remember rightly).

We worked with AluDesign for almost twenty years and have nothing but great things to say about their products and their integrity. During my many visits there I saw frames for Petzl, Black Diamond, Wild Country and every other euro-brand that sells products to climbers and mountaineers. I’m pretty sure that they shipped frames to Petzl and BD so they could finish assembly (put the gates on) in their home country and avoid duties.

There's no duty between Italy and France but shipping over to put the bits together allows one to put "Made in France" on the label  

Yup!  I knew that Climbing Technology makes hardware for A LOT of other companies, like Edelrid, Trango, Cypher, etc.