"Climbers Trail" Sign. Good or Bad?

The only reason I’d see a trail post for suicide being necessary would be to keep people from wandering onto home owners property which has been an issue in the past. The ranger was telling us last time we were up there they used to have an issue with climbers walking through people’s yards and some using their hoses to rinse off. You have to be an idiot to just go up and start washing yourself with some strangers hose. If it comes down to the Forest Service wanting to put the posts back up I have no issue going up and putting in a post nobody is getting out without a good size vehicle. I could get a good size piece of a power pole from work or see if the local Edison crew up there will leave one to use seeing how they’re replacing most of their poles anyways.

Years ago, once you crossed the creek and came to the water district road, the climber's trail proceeded more or less straight up the hill towards Suicide, passing on private property. The property owners made a lot of noise about this to the Forest Service, and the Access Fund became involved, because access was becoming threatened. The solution that was reached was the one that exists today- walking up the water district road, then making that dogleg turn back towards the trail. (Maybe Bob can chime in on more of the historical details on that.)

There are plenty of idiots in Idyllwild these days on any given weekend stooopid enough to go onto private property and use someone's hose to wash off. You oughta be here when it snows....the depth to human stoooopidity here goes off the charts.

apogee wrote: oughta be here when it snows....the depth to human stoooopidity here goes off the charts.

That's one of the tipping points that finally got my folks to get the hell outta dodge. One fine winter day, the old, Old lady next to my folks needed help shoveling her driveway.  Normally she's on top of it, but this time she couldn't get rid of the crew using her driveway as their sled hill... they even hopped the fence to access this wonderful run and really didn't understand they are losers...

Yep, I think the signage for the Suicide Trail is equally as important as the Tahquitz trails. There is one home up there- built after the original trail that traversed the property. Legally, I believe an "easement" existed, since the trail was in use before the property was developed.  The new trail was rerouted around the property as an amenable solution, so the signage is important to keep people on the right track and off the property. To steal the signs is a dastardly deed;  a lot of effort went in to placing those, and if stolen, they'll need to be replaced.

Tradiban, are you saying all the signs have been swiped, or just the "climber's trail" post at the start of the trail?

Bob Gaines wrote: Yep, I think the signage for the Suicide Trail is equally as important as the Tahquitz trails. There is one home up there- built after the original trail that traversed the property. Legally, I believe an "easement" existed, since the trail was in use before the property was developed.  The new trail was rerouted around the property as an amenable solution, so the signage is important to keep people on the right track and off the property. To steal the signs is a dastardly deed;  a lot of effort went in to placing those, and if stolen, they'll need to be replaced.

Tradiban, are you saying all the signs have been swiped, or just the "climber's trail" post at the start of the trail?

"Climber's Trail" at both Tah trail heads. Are there other signs besides the "Climbers Trail" at Suicide?

apogee wrote: Years ago, once you crossed the creek and came to the water district road, the climber's trail proceeded more or less straight up the hill towards Suicide, passing on private property. The property owners made a lot of noise about this to the Forest Service, and the Access Fund became involved, because access was becoming threatened. The solution that was reached was the one that exists today- walking up the water district road, then making that dogleg turn back towards the trail. (Maybe Bob can chime in on more of the historical details on that.)

There are plenty of idiots in Idyllwild these days on any given weekend stooopid enough to go onto private property and use someone's hose to wash off. You oughta be here when it snows....the depth to human stoooopidity here goes off the charts.

It wouldn’t let post anymore, but I agree with winter brings the best out. I bought a house in Big Bear and didn’t want anything to do with it during the winter. Coming from NY nobody travels to see snow it’s usually the opposite. It’s a complete 180 here in Cali, talk about a nightmare! People sledding on blind turns, letting their kids play in people’s yards, leaving broken sleds and trash everywhere.... I couldn’t believe it. Like I said though I’m able to grab a good size piece of power pole from work if the Forrest service is ok with it. I’d love to see someone try and steal that.

Edited: the only issue I’d see with it is most we remove are old creosote poles, which I’m not sure how the Forest Service would feel about that. If Edison has some trash ones up there after they’re done I don’t see what the difference would be of a simple relocation.

Tradiban wrote:

"Climber's Trail" at both Tah trail heads. Are there other signs besides the "Climbers Trail" at Suicide?

After you cross the creek there's a sign where you turn right at the paved road, then a signpost at the end of the paved road where it turns into a dirt trail.

Marc801 C wrote:

1. The biner is painted on

2. It's an NPS installed post - you're not removing that without power equipment!

Alex said he's bring the muscle and help my puny body crush.  

Michael J P wrote: The thing is that there is so much traffic in the Valley, it would be hard for anyone to spend the inordinate amount of time necessary to dig up those NPS posts without being caught by a ranger or bystander.  

Back in the days, there was someone stealing the registries from the High Sierra peaks, and I remembered that included the steel registers bolted to the technical summits.  I don't think the mystery was ever solved whether it was some selfish person stealing history for their own personal collection or a hippy who thought the boxes "desecrated" the mountains.

While both Tahquitz and Suicide see a lot of traffic on the weekends, I suspect it would still be quite easy for a determined vandal to take the posts on a weekday when most people aren't there, except a handful of locals.

Not if you dug it down 4-5 feet and tamped it.

Michael J P wrote:
This isn't my forte so I'll defer to your knowledge, but how will you tamp the loose and steep soil by the climbers' trail enough to discourage vandals from taking the posts?  I'm out of town this month, but willing to pitch in weekday or weekend if you have a workable and lasting solution anytime after that.

We could just pour some quickcrete down 4-5 feet like Justin said and then tamp the shibby out of it, doubt it would go anywhere.

"Not if you dug it down 4-5 feet and tamped it."

Ever try to do any digging anywhere in Idyllwild? Whether it's a footing, gardening, or fence post, this place has more rock than soil. Especially up towards T/S.

You might get away with something more shallow if a cross-member of some kind (i.e. a short piece of re-bar) was placed through the post, then buried.

apogee wrote: "Not if you dug it down 4-5 feet and tamped it."

Ever try to do any digging anywhere in Idyllwild? Whether it's a footing, gardening, or fence post, this place has more rock than soil. Especially up towards T/S.

You might get away with something more shallow if a cross-member of some kind (i.e. a short piece of re-bar) was placed through the post, then buried.

I hand dig power poles all the time. It sucks but it’ll go. Less depth with the rebar throw the bottom would be ideal, and the quick Crete isn’t a bad idea either as long as the NFS is cool with it. Either or works. 4x4 posts would probably work just fine. I’m cool with forking over some cash to make it happen. If a couple people helped out there’s enough loose rocks around the trail to give it a decent outline as well.  

Dude, I dug the footings for my own house up here, and know the word of those who do construction or landscaping up here quite well. It's well known that any kind of digging up here is tough, and likely to run into continual rocks (esp. a '4-5 hole'). Typical posthole digging tools are not an option- you gotta do it by shovel & digging bar, and the hole is likely to be much bigger than you expect because of all the rock you encounter.

I suggested the rebar crossmember idea because you could get away with a shallower hole- place a few rocks on it as it is backfilled, and that should discourage most vandals. Most of the time, they are simply kicking the post back and forth a few times, then just pulling it out.

Watching the SCE contractors dig power pole holes up here is always entertaining. Every time, they struggle.

apogee wrote: Dude, I dug the footings for my own house up here, and know the word of those who do construction or landscaping up here quite well. It's well known that any kind of digging up here is tough, and likely to run into continual rocks (esp. a '4-5 hole'). Posthole digging is not an option- you gotta do it by shovel & digging bar, and the hole is likely to be much bigger than you expect because of all the rock you encounter.

I suggested the rebar crossmember idea because you could get away with a shallower hole- place a few rocks on it as it is backfilled, and that should discourage most vandals. Most of the time, they are simply kicking the post back and forth a few times, then just pulling it out.

Watching the SCE contractors dig power pole holes up here is always entertaining. Every time, they struggle.

I’m not disagreeing with you in the least bit, for a 24” pole up in the foothills you generally end up setting it in a 3-4’ hole. It 100% sucks and digging a 5’ hole can take an entire day, but if I have to dig through boulders to make sure some chuffer doesn’t take something that doesn’t belong to them I’m all down for that. I live the area and would be pretty pissed off if something so simple contributed to the idea of having it shut down for the majority because of the minority’s behavior.

I live the area and would be pretty pissed off if something so simple contributed to the idea of having it shut down for the majority because of the minority’s behavior.

Unbelievable... Look, the sky's falling!

 

Well, Justin S, I appreciate your willingness, but be prepared for more work than you think!

x15x15 wrote: Unbelievable... Look, the sky's falling!

 

Don’t worry the new post will brace the fall

abandon moderation wrote: If someone is going to go to all the work of digging this, I'd probably make sure something is in the post to prevent this

At a local crag they put up posts by putting up chicken wire (or wire fencing of some sort), then putting a post inside and filling it in with rocks around the post. Pretty durable, but perhaps not the most tamperproof option.

We can always use the butt of the last pole I climbed and put a metal tube in it.

Admit it tragedy you stole it

Michael J P wrote: Did you steal those posts Phil???  :-)

Don't know who phil is, but I've heard that he thinks all thieves should be rotting somewhere appropriate...