Manufactured routes at Ten Sleep being called out

Deez Nuts wrote: Seems the same could be said about any rural area, if you wanted to be an ignorant dick about it.

Oooh, good one Larry!

Thanks Darryl.

....and this is my other brother Daryl 

This is an interesting conversation and I'm not quite sure where I stand on it. I've climbed at Ten Sleep many times; I'm an intermediate level climber. I will say that I have a hard time trusting any viewpoints from Aaron Huey, given the very sexist nature of his original guide book and the sexist, derogatory naming of some of his routes. I understand that Aaron was trying to be funny with his porn star ratings and whatnot, but it's just not. I'm not a prude, it's simply not amusing. I used the rackup guide last summer and found it to be excellent. I think it's unfair for Aaron to drag the author of the rackup guide into this debate without acknowledging and apologizing for his own mistakes and harms done to the climbing community through his insensitivity. In the spirit of ethics, why not address all unethical behaviors at Ten Sleep? If one is going to start pointing fingers, other fingers can certainly be pointed right back at you.

Ly Emec wrote: This is an interesting conversation and I'm not quite sure where I stand on it. I've climbed at Ten Sleep many times; I'm an intermediate level climber. I will say that I have a hard time trusting any viewpoints from Aaron Huey, given the very sexist nature of his original guide book and the sexist, derogatory naming of some of his routes. I understand that Aaron was trying to be funny with his porn star ratings and whatnot, but it's just not. I'm not a prude, it's simply not amusing. I used the rackup guide last summer and found it to be excellent. I think it's unfair for Aaron to drag the author of the rackup guide into this debate without acknowledging and apologizing for his own mistakes and harms done to the climbing community through his insensitivity. In the spirit of ethics, why not address all unethical behaviors at Ten Sleep? If one is going to start pointing fingers, other fingers can certainly be pointed right back at you.

There’s a difference between getting your feelings hurt and damaging rock forever...the ethics you’re talking about are apples to oranges. One are climbing ethics, the others are not. This is about climbing ethics, let’s not start a whole Joe Kinder debate again

I wonder if the local bible thumpers know this?

Ly Emec wrote:  I'm not a prude, it's simply not amusing. 

Sorry to say, but you're being a bit of a prude. I mean it's an fn guidebook.  Porn exists. Machine gun exists. He's not promoting porn, or the use of machine guns. You're welcome to appreciate or not the humour. I'm not sure it's humor - it's mostly just originality. If you want a factual, strickly practical guidebook there are tons of them which you named (rakkup, mp etc.). Try to loosen up a little, you may find it amusing. If not I suggest at least not being too bothered by things that, ultimately, don't matter.

For the rest, well it's pretty sad but I'm not all that surprised. Climbing is pretty popular nowadays. A number of morons will be drawn in. This means a number of people, who may or not be morons themselves, may make moronic decisions. Seems Louis is into that. I don't like the public lynching mentality that went into some of this thread/FB page (althought it was overall more civil than I would have thought). But mistakes were made, we can all agree on that.

However, I think taking the routes down would only be fair. Moronic decisions need to have consequences. Whatever reason he may have had to put those up this way in the beginning, they were misguided, and I'm sure he would have envisioned them lasting more than a few years, whatever his motivations were. Of course, the risk in doing that being starting a bolt chipping war, which would be stupid. Perhaps if the BHCC & the local climbing community can lead the process, and assuming sufficient agreement to the idea (or at least lack of passionate opposition), they may be able to take down some of those routes in a way that wouldn't risk.... escalating too much (boom-tisk). Otherwise this creates a bit of a moral hazard - I mean you manufacture shit on cliffs. People climb it. You name's in a guidebook/you write guidebook / you own a climbing ranch. People complain a little for a while, then everything just goes on. You're still kind of a climbing hero. Your routes are still there. You can still claim some sort of climbing legacy. This isn't fair and shouldn't be.

==================================

For those who care:

You could avoid the Rock Ranch in Ten Sleep, should you go there (Louis started it). There's plenty of good, including free, campground. One's in a fricking brewery.

You could avoid buying his guidebooks. Huey's pretty good. rakkup does the job as well. And/or MP. It's not like there are no options.

You could also write to him ( louieandersonclimbing.com/c…). I'm not suggesting insulting/hate mail. But maybe if enough take the time to write to him, he may realize he's upsetting a larger chunk of his business model than he really should. Worst-case it'll flood his email.

"I don't like the public lynching mentality that went into some of this thread"  yet he keeps it going and suggests harassing the guy without even speaking to him personally...

Is there some sort of Mountain Project hall of fame, and if not, can this thread be the first inductee?

What a gem. We have all of the following in here:

• Public floggings
• Hillary and Trump
• Tradiban
• Global Warming
• Big Agriculture
• Big Oil
• Chemical Warfare
• The Military Industrial Complex
• Overpopulation
• Boob jobs
• Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
• Forced vasectomies
• Religions fetishizing children
• Flat earth
• Bubonic plague
• Rape, war, genocide, child molestation, corporate greed, consumerism, racism, and social media
• Anti-vaxxers 
• Chinese and Indian people causing earth to be uninhabitable 
• Banning sport climbers from the outdoors
• Phish concerts in the 90s 
• A debate over the Big Lebowski which as spawned its own thread
• Sucking dead monkey balls
• George Zimmerman
• Aaron Huey's new guidebook is sexist

This is my favorite thread... and i am proud of the contributions i made.... i also... am still waiting for a mysterious internet stranger to attempt to kick my ass. 

James Huffman wrote: Is there some sort of Mountain Project hall of fame, and if not, can this thread be the first inductee?

What a gem. We have all of the following in here:

• Public floggings
• Hillary and Trump
• Tradiban
• Global Warming
• Big Agriculture
• Big Oil
• Chemical Warfare
• The Military Industrial Complex
• Overpopulation
• Boob jobs
• Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
• Forced vasectomies
• Religions fetishizing children
• Flat earth
• Bubonic plague
• Rape, war, genocide, child molestation, corporate greed, consumerism, racism, and social media
• Anti-vaxxers 
• Chinese and Indian people causing earth to be uninhabitable 
• Banning sport climbers from the outdoors
• Phish concerts in the 90s 
• A debate over the Big Lebowski which as spawned its own thread
• Sucking dead monkey balls
• George Zimmerman
• Aaron Huey's new guidebook is sexist

About where was the boob job post? I missed it...

Buck Rio wrote:

About where was the boob job post? I missed it...

My brain is melted from reading this entire thread, I think it was somewhere in the middle...

I must say, there is something poetic about a discussion of boob jobs in a thread about "manufactured holds"

James Huffman wrote:

My brain is melted from reading this entire thread, I think it was somewhere in the middle...

I must say, there is something poetic about a discussion of boob jobs in a thread about "manufactured holds"

I don't want to read it all, I just don't re-call breasts coming into play during this whole whatever.

Buck Rio wrote:

I don't want to read it all, I just don't re-call breasts coming into play during this whole whatever.

Found it... It's on page 9

I sorta figured some degree of shitshow was inevitable with starting a thread on this sort of topic, though I didn't quite envision what's been transcribed on these 19 pages (and counting). I've probably been equally amused and confused with all the ways in which this thread has drifted around.

oh,i climb hard routes,so I can do anything I want.who's authority did you #*!k up the rock under?

I spent time in Tensleep several summers ago.  The crags were fantastic, but the potential had not nearly been reached.  I would say, however, that the only guidebook available was written by some misogynistic prick.  It was a waste of resources and exemplified everything that is still wrong with boys will be boys climbing.  Since he is one of the authors of this letter, I find his claims to be as reputable as his juvenile guidebook.  Blah blah blah.  So before you jump on his bandwagon, consider the source.  

Here is a suggestion boys.  Grow a pair (of boobs that is) and sit down and AGREE on some ways to manage the area.  The table should include persons who are actually putting up the quality routes and understand what it takes to put a good route in western limestone.  This doesn't mean just you and your big muscly buddies, but people who want good routes to go in that will be valued and get lots of ascents.  That is, until Tensleep goes the way of all limestone areas, which is polished glass fit only for the finest French wunderkinds.  

Oh, and is calling a misogynist a misogynist is "being a jerk" I've been doing it successfully for years and it makes me smile.  Feel free to delete my post if you can't bear it.  Get it?  Bear it?

Mary Riddel wrote: So before you jump on his bandwagon, consider the source.  

Here is a suggestion boys.  Grow a pair (of boobs that is) and sit down and AGREE on some ways to manage the area.  

Hey Mary!  

Two things..    It's not just Huey calling out this route manufacturing bs.

And as far as growing a pair and settling this, this was tried.  The main perpetrators when confronted completely denied that were doing what they were in fact doing.  Then they pretty much told everybody at the table they were just going to do wtf they wanted.  And now they want to proudly publish 'their' guidebook.  It is a bit chauvinistic of you to blow this all off as 'boys being boys'.  

Many locals have been putting a lot of willingness and effort into settling this and it's been thrown in their faces so now some of them are chopping bolts!

I'm trying to grow a pair but they are showing up on either side of my waist.

For the record, misogynistic asshole aside, Gluey Slanderson's reputation is decades old. He's done some pretty shitty work in socal. I'd hate to see his "handy work" spread.