Why use skinny ropes?

grog m wrote: I will add an important factor - the skinnier the rope, the more likely to tangle and knot. Which is a huge detraction for me. My 9.1 is a tang-ly rat that I despise. Minimum diameter I would buy now is 9.6 just for the tangle factor.

1lb of weight for a rope is not that significant.

Fair point. On the same day I mentioned above, I spent 10min kicking a rat nest down the first rappel. 

grog m wrote: I will add an important factor - the skinnier the rope, the more likely to tangle and knot......

Guys, you simply have to think outside the box.   That’s the backup safety feature Tradi’s been harping on....if you suddenly whip while your belayer is unconscious, that snarl you so despise is what’s keeping you off the deck, lol. 
It’s part of my system....

Thick ropes save lives!

Jared Chrysostom wrote:

Fair point. On the same day I mentioned above, I spent 10min kicking a rat nest down the first rappel. 

Agree also.

Everything you might do with a single to avoid tangles, you usually ought to do with a pair of ropes, especially skinnier ones.

Last two weekends, I found myself saddle bagging the lower half of each rope just before each of five raps. This was on my old 8.9s.

On the other hand, I was solo and really glad to not have to carry two fatter ropes plus small rack by myself.

Skinny ropes are great kit. They can just help make everything a bit easier when time or efficiency is an issue.

I normally trad climb on a pair of Beal 50metre 8.6mm ropes and Sport climb on a basic Mammut 60metre 9.8mm. However I've also got 40metre and 60metre 8.7mm single ropes which are fantastic kit for whenever I need to kick things up a gear.

For example, last Summer, for some post work cragging on E2/E3s (5.11s) in the English Lake District, I just packed the 40metre skinny single. It was absolutely perfect. It was more compact and easy to pack when short of space with all the rest of my luggage. Also, being short of daylight the lighter weight was much appreciated on the rapid walk-ins. Admittedly, climbing a 38metre route on a 40metre rope did feel slightly committing but for three great routes snatched over two evenings I'm not worried in the slightest over any durability issue.

Equally, when guiding mountaineering routes, skinny ropes are fantastic. They make all the ropework easier, especially carrying coils.
Most of the time I'll go for the shortest rope I can get away with. For classic routes like Tower Ridge on Ben Nevis that I've done numerous times before, I know 30metres is fine, so I'll grab the burly 10mm that I normally use indoors. However, for other routes or when guiding routes for the first time (e.g. The Clach Glas - Bla Bheinn traverse on the Isle of Skye this February), I'll really want 60metres of rope, just in case. With a skinny rope, I can easily take 40metres of coils without any issues. With something closer to 10mm that becomes much more awkward.
With paying clients on a big mountain day I'm going to do everything to keep the day as slick and efficient as possible. That means at certain times using the skinniest rope I've got and again not worrying about the durability too much.

I don't carry the same rack on every route. I don't use the same climbing shoes on every route. Equally, I don't use the same rope or ropes on every route.

It's nothing to do with fashion or marketing. Owning some top quality skinny ropes just gives me more options.

The Ex-Engineer wroteI don't carry the same rack on every route. I don't use the same climbing shoes on every route. Equally, I don't use the same rope or ropes on every route.

It's nothing to do with fashion or marketing. Owning some top quality skinny ropes just gives me more options.

If there was ever going to be an answer to the thread, this is it. ^^^^

Principal’d views like “only use ropes larger than X diameter” are how you feel when you ... say ... are fresh out of beginner climbing school.

Eventually, reality comes into focus - for most folks. Probably took me longer than average.  :)

Bill Lawry wrote: Two fat ropes in an ATC Guide in guide mode is an extreme work out for the belayer. My two halves / twins are not. And I’m good with that.

Lol, god forbid the belayor gets a work out!

Sure, there's many circumstances when you can get away with skinny ropes but they don't make or break a climb. If you need two ropes, two solid 9.6s are pretty light and offer superior protection over skinny ones, not to mention more versatile.

It's about the value, overall you will get more out of "thick" ropes than "skinny" ones so I always laugh a bit when these poor dirty bags pull out a quiver of ropes worth $1500 and bitch how all of them are wore out, when all they really need to do anything is two solid "thick" ropes.

I always say "you do you" but please don't come on here whining when it all goes wrong.

Tradiban wrote: I always say "you do you" but please don't come on here whining when it all goes wrong.

Says the boy who whines the most!!

coldfinger wrote:

Says the boy who whines the most!!

Well he has become sort of a sign post for me. The people he whines about the most include the ones who’s posts I find as interesting reading. :-)

Disagreement does not equal whining. But most hippies see disagreement as instant enemy.

Tradiban wrote:

You can feel 1lb less? I doubt that.

#2 though, I agree, pretty nice to climb with. What device was the bealyor using? Do you think diminished braking force was a factor?

It's similar to the UL movement in backpacking Nick. Hopefully, you'll look at the slimming of your weight as a whole -- not the individual items. 

If I hike out into the alpine with a 1.5 lb 20 degree western mountaineering bag, ul master cams racked with FS minis, dynex slings, and an 8.9 mm single rope, I'll start to notice a difference.

Smaller diameter rope also means significantly less drag over the course of a long pitch. You are reducing friction dramatically.

[snob] When I travel to Europe to do some sport wanking, I always bring a Nano in a 70m, packs small, flys light, etc [/snob]

I got a 9.2 for travel because at 70m it is the same weight as my 60m 9.8 and lots of routes in Asia require 70m. Every pound counts when you're living out of a pack for a year. I also love how the 9.2 handles when giving out slack in my grigri. I sprung for the dry treatment which also makes it handle really slick in the grigri and should counteract any durability disadvantage over a thicker wet rope. 

Half a mm makes all these kinds of differences?  Please.  An 11mm compared to 9.2, yeah, I get it.  A 9.8mm vs a 9.5mm?  Come on now...

Adam Stackhouse wrote: Half a mm makes all these kinds of differences?  Please.  An 11mm compared to 9.2, yeah, I get it.  A 9.8mm vs a 9.5mm?  Come on now...

(Edited to correct)

Just a quick search using mammut ropes as reference... 

70m 9.8 at 63g/m

70m 9.2 dry at 57g/m

Hobo Greg wrote:

Some of us actually go out and climb instead of being internet sprayers, ya know. A tough belay for 10 pitches can definitely cause overuse injuries like common extensor inflammation aka “tennis elbow”

What constitutes a tough belay?

master gumby wrote:

What constitutes a tough belay?

One where your puffy is accidentally in the leaders pack.

Hobo Greg wrote:

I quoted Tradiban in response to someone who said using fat ropes in atc guide sucks. I once walked back to the cars from Uber fall at the gunks to get a 10.1 because my buddy had an old 10.5 that felt like 12mm wen I tried using it in guide mode. My body already takes enough abuse from climbing, hiking, biking, and now guiding. I don’t need any extra wear and tear that could easily be avoided by using a better rope. Work smarter not harder.

How much do you charge for your guide services?

Hobo Greg wrote:

A million dollars.

Done

Here's my twisted logic. I have a workhorse, beater 60m Tendon rope I use and abuse sport climbing places like Malibu Creek. That fucker just won't die. Probably a 10.0, maybe 9.8.

I own a 60m 9.8 Mammut that handles like silk and is just a fantastic rope. That's probably my most used rope.

I have a 70m 9.2 Mammut that goes with me on multi-pitch trad climbs. I like the extra 10m to be able to run things out and to be able to build anchors with the rope without worry. Also, there seem to be a lot of climbs that require one 70 or two 60s to rap off. I'll always take one 70 in that case. The 9.2 and the 9.8 handle similarly in terms of belay devices and hand. The 70m weighs the same as the 60m, more or less.

Time will tell if one is more durable than that other. In the scheme of things, ropes are really cheap compared to other things. Getting a light rope is probably the least expensive way to save a pound in climbing gear if weight is your concern.