Once I finish leading a trad route, what are my options?

CVRIV wrote: Thanks to all those who gave me the information I was seeking.

I was most definitely expecting and waiting for all the "other" posts as well. It's to be expected every time I post here. I'm not going to waste my breathe arguing with anyone here about my abilities. All I have to say is that I'm still alive and very much self taught.

To the person who asked if I have a PAS, I have many. I've I literally just recieved all my trad gear in the mail. Purchased 1200 beans worth of stuff and within a next few weeks Im gonna do this. I just ordered 6 rap rings just incase. I need them at the top to install/ replace.

Won't stick to sport just because I want my trad to end like sport. I'm not a purist. Ill admit that. Don't care.

Have a nice day everyone! It's gonna be nice out this weekend on the east coast, by me at least. 

I'm still early on in my "self-taught-trad" career, so hopefully my perspective comes across as less "yer gunna die simply because you're new" than you were expecting from the more experienced crowd, but...

Yer gunna die. IF you rush into it. Trad has less to do with ability than it does with knowledge and, most importantly, experience. You might be able to get away with poor trad by simply not falling, but not forever. As recently as last year, my group got a sincere/stern "the questions you're asking are making me nervous" at the top of a climb from a far more experienced passing-by group (last April at the top of Dairyland; if that was you, cheers). They weren't trying to discourage us; they were trying to do the right thing, and I'm thankful they did, even though it was a little embarrassing at the time.

If you are asking the questions you are asking, my opinion is that you probably want to learn a lot more before you realize 50 feet up that quality gear doesn't matter if you racked it wrong or can't identify a good placement.

Keep asking questions, be humble to responses, and keep the stoke up.

Andy stated it well.   Some things you just dont know that you don’t know and you don’t want to find out the first time on trad lead.  

Case in point, a while back I watched a brand new “trad leader” come unglued because every piece of pro he placed popped out as soon as he got above it due to his belayer position and the short stiff sport draws he was clipping to his pro. He was effectively soloing the route.  Luckily with some guidance to him and his belayer it all worked out and he was able to bail and lowered safely.  But his words were a lot of “never thought of that”...in the debrief and discussion on the ground. 
(Make sure you have some TRAD draws and slings in your new rack if you don’t already)

Suggest you dial in your rack and system as well as placements on TR - a few times at least -if you are just going to go it alone.  You’ll also likely not guess right the first time as you dial in your “eye” for pro and judging whether that slot is best for a .75 or a #1 or a #2 cam etc.  .....so make sure your endurance is up to snuff.

Usually some form of victory whip.

Guide books usually have a descent section for the route (or area) you're interested in climbing.  Never a bad idea to check for route beta on MP.  Sometimes you'll find useful information regarding the descent (e.g., bolts are bad and need to be replaced, etc).

Mark Pilate wrote: Andy stated it well.   Some things you just dont know that you don’t know and you don’t want to find out out the first time on trad lead.  

Case in point, a while back I watched a brand new “trad leader” come unglued because every piece of pro he placed popped out as soon as he got above it due to his belayer position and the short stiff sport draws he was clipping to his pro. He was effectively soloing the route.  Luckily with some guidance to him and his belayer it all worked out and he was able to bail and lowered safely.  But his words were a lot of “never thought of that”...in the debrief.
(Make sure you have some TRAD draws and slings in your new rack if you don’t already)

Suggest you dial in your rack and system as well as placements on TR a few times at least if you are just going to go it alone.  You’ll also likely not guess right the first time as you dial in your “eye” for pro and judging whether that slot is best for a .75 or a #1 or a #2 cam etc.  .....so make sure your endurance is up to snuff.

Even if you're thinking "Fine, I'll start on a 5.4/5.5/5.6, even though I wouldn't waste my time even looking at climbs that easy on sport," you may be surprised how tiring a 5.4 can be when you are hanging on by one hand for two minutes at a time because you misjudged the size nut you need for the fourth time and can't shuffle through your rack because you brought an entire gear store up with you.

Or maybe I'm projecting.

Mark Pilate wrote: Andy stated it well.   Some things you just dont know that you don’t know and you don’t want to find out the first time on trad lead.  

Case in point, a while back I watched a brand new “trad leader” come unglued because every piece of pro he placed popped out as soon as he got above it due to his belayer position and the short stiff sport draws he was clipping to his pro. He was effectively soloing the route.  Luckily with some guidance to him and his belayer it all worked out and he was able to bail and lowered safely.  But his words were a lot of “never thought of that”...in the debrief and discussion on the ground.
(Make sure you have some TRAD draws and slings in your new rack if you don’t already)

Suggest you dial in your rack and system as well as placements on TR a few times at least if you are just going to go it alone.  You’ll also likely not guess right the first time as you dial in your “eye” for pro and judging whether that slot is best for a .75 or a #1 or a #2 cam etc.  .....so make sure your endurance is up to snuff

Was hoping someone would mention the importance of having a belayer that knows the differences between belaying sport vs belaying trad.  I've found as I've taken up trad climbing over the past several years that it's very reassuring having an experienced belayer on the other end so I don't have to worry as much about zippering gear, or to give a friendly reminder when I want to add a sling vs a regular draw, etc.  It may not seem like it until you actually start plugging gear, but there is *A LOT* more going on during a trad climb than when you're clipping bolts..

jumping

I'm new to Trad leading and have been lucky enough to climb with a very experienced Trad leader.

The most important lesson I've learned is this; if you're not 100%, don't do it. Swallow your pride and be safe.

I was doing a multi yesterday and went to lead a 5.7 pitch. Looked fine from the "ground" with lots of places for pro and a pretty easy traverse. Everything was fine until I reached a roof that required a layback with a TON of exposure. I took a look at my gear, felt sketchy about whether I had enough remaining (I zippered it up way excessively for the first half of the pitch and used up my smaller pieces), sat there evaluating for a few minutes before building a Trad anchor in the corner and lowering back to my partner. She easily climbed the pitch and on top rope I had no problem, super chill. Still, there's zero doubt in my mind I made the right call lowering off.

Moral of the story; practice building a Trad anchor on the ground because you never know when you might need one, climb with someone stronger than you until you get more experience reading a Trad route, and sometimes in Trad a grade is less important than exposure & gear management.

Bring a drill and bolt kit...bang bang twist and rappel. 

Andy Eiter wrote:

Even if you're thinking "Fine, I'll start on a 5.4/5.5/5.6, even though I wouldn't waste my time even looking at climbs that easy on sport," you may be surprised how tiring a 5.4 can be when you are hanging on by one hand for two minutes at a time because you misjudged the size nut you need for the fourth time and can't shuffle through your rack because you brought an entire gear store up with you.

Or maybe I'm projecting.

This is good advice. I've been all elvis leg on ledgy 5.5 trad trying to fiddle with gear. Then in the same day flashed .11b sport..

In all seriousness. Don't think of this in sport climbing terms. There was just a very serious accident in J-tree caused when a climber tried to lower off a single pitch trad climb, apparently overlooking that single pitch trad does NOT mean 1/2 a rope length like in sport climbs. Climber lowered off the end of the rope and fell about 25-30 feet. Don't make that mistake. 

master gumby wrote:

I'm sorry but if you want it to be like sport climbing, I respectfully think you should stick with sport. Trad climbing is not sport climbing and many fight to keep the ethics in tact and not have sport climbing ethics invade the discipline. 

If you want "sport trad" go to Indian creek

Wut?

The dude was just hoping that cleaning a single pitch trad route could have a similar process to cleaning a single pitch sport route. And in so many cases they are super similar. Why do so many people on here need to crap on the less experienced oh my goodness it's maddening

Edit: and don't start with 'I'm sorry' cuz you're not, you're just flexing that all too common climbing god complex

Andy Eiter wrote:

Even if you're thinking "Fine, I'll start on a 5.4/5.5/5.6, even though I wouldn't waste my time even looking at climbs that easy on sport," you may be surprised how tiring a 5.4 can be when you are hanging on by one hand for two minutes at a time because you misjudged the size nut you need for the fourth time and can't shuffle through your rack because you brought an entire gear store up with you.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet - practice a ton of placements on the ground. Walk around with your rack, find possible placements, put in a piece, inspect it, yank on it from many directions, get a feel for how easily a piece can come out of a perfect-seeming textbook placement when you don't have a lot of experience with trad gear, etc.

Dillon Schwertz wrote:

Wut?

The dude was just hoping that cleaning a single pitch trad route could have a similar process to cleaning a single pitch sport route. And in so many cases they are super similar. Why do so many people on here need to crap on the less experienced oh my goodness it's maddening

Edit: and don't start with 'I'm sorry' cuz you're not, you're just flexing that all too common climbing god complex

I am a god, Tradiban said so.

Please tell me how you really feel? I am so sorry that offended you by flexing my outrageously large biceps from all of the TRAD climbing I do. I'm sorry, really truly am sorry that you thing that sport climbing and trad climbing are the same. I am sorry that this is the world opinion we have come to..... I am so sorry that you had to read my post, maybe you could block me with that fancy new plug in so you dont have to look at my muscles when I flex on the internet? I am sorry if this offends you. really sorry.

Edit: I'm sorry but I am still flexing

1. Beer

2. Weed

3. Start a thread detailing the gear you lost 

Literally the best part of trad climbing is rigging a rappel off some fucked up nest of tat tied around 1/4-inch button heads and star drives sticking halfway out of their holes and maybe a stray nut thrown in for good measure and thinking to yourself the entire rappel: "Oh god, I hope that holds, oh god I hope that holds, oh god I hope that holds..."

Remember: The Best Climber Climbs Tomorrow

Y’all are fucking crabs. Have fun OP!

master gumby wrote:

I am a god, Tradiban said so.

Please tell me how you really feel? I am so sorry that offended you by flexing my outrageously large biceps from all of the TRAD climbing I do. I'm sorry, really truly am sorry that you thing that sport climbing and trad climbing are the same. I am sorry that this is the world opinion we have come to..... I am so sorry that you had to read my post, maybe you could block me with that fancy new plug in so you dont have to look at my muscles when I flex on the internet? I am sorry if this offends you. really sorry.

Edit: I'm sorry but I am still flexing

Sorry I was really frustrated earlier and it definitely showed.

Still stand by the opinion that these comments just make mp less of a resource. But whatever, I know this is a useless argument. Just wanted to apologise for blowing up a little.

And to op, plenty of options depending on different situations. Some can be really similar to sport cleaning, other times it can be very different. Definitely helps to have a lot of tools in the tool belt before you head into new territory.

wonderwoman wrote: A few years ago I was setting up a rappel in the gunks when an untethered climber came out of nowhere and pretty much asked me the same question as the OP :

‘excuse me, but where are the anchors?’

He had left two climbers on the ledge below & untied himself from the rope in order to seek out the anchors.  
My friend & I had to set up his anchor for him with his gear.
I shit you not.

WOW!!!