New BD C4 cams - worth it?

If you were buying a new rack, which would you go for? With the sales going on right now, it seems like a lot of places are selling last year's C4s for 35% off, whereas the new cams are 25% off. That puts a new rack of 0.3-3 about $50 more expensive.

I've heard the C4s are 10% lighter and that maybe the stems are a little better in terms of stiffness. Anything else? 

Tyler Johnson wrote: If you were buying a new rack, which would you go for? With the sales going on right now, it seems like a lot of places are selling last year's C4s for 35% off, whereas the new cams are 25% off. That puts a new rack of 0.3-3 about $50 more expensive.

I've heard the C4s are 10% lighter and that maybe the stems are a little better in terms of stiffness. Anything else? 

I really like the new model C4s, especially in the bigger sizes. Especially the #4,#5, #6 with the built in trigger keeper. Do you use ActiveJunky? Use it and you should be able to get about 10% additional cash back from places like Moosejaw or Backcountry while enjoying the sale prices. 

Tyler Johnson wrote: Anything else? 

I don't have much to say about the overall question, but the bigger sizes (4, 5, and 6) in the new cams also have a new trigger keeper that keeps them closed when racked. 

The thing I'm skeptical about with the new c4s is that the plastic used on the stems is stiffer.  Anyone have problems with that stiffer plastic cracking?  Seems like the same plastic they've been using on the c4 ULs.

campsaver - you can backorder at 20% off the 25% discount.
The new ones are nice. If they're similar price, get 'em. 
Best in 4-6 for the trigger keeper, though. The new Friends are pretty slick too and make a great double rack... 

That sweet, sweet rush of new climbing equipment on its way.

Thanks for talking me into it, ya'll.

Yeah they are noticeably lighter at all sizes compared to the previous model, but I don't think that would necessarily justify the additional expense. If you needed a 4, 5, and 6 on your rack, then that is where the value is.

Tyler Johnson wrote: That sweet, sweet rush of new climbing equipment on its way.

Thanks for talking me into it, ya'll.

Schweeeet, get some Metolius UL Mastercams for your second set!

I thought about that (i.e. buy the last gen for 0.3 - 3 and the new ones for 4 - 6) but decided I really wanted a matching set.

Matt N wrote: campsaver - you can backorder at 20% off the 25% discount.
The new ones are nice. If they're similar price, get 'em.
Best in 4-6 for the trigger keeper, though. The new Friends are pretty slick too and make a great double rack... 

I tried and you can't. It won't let you check out.

Ryan PK wrote: I tried and you can't. It won't let you check out.

I think they removed the "outlet" designation from the new C4s - darn. I believe people got it to work the other day. CS and BC have been playing with their coupon applicability during this week's sales. 

SPSV2020 works on the "old" c4s and you can get a set for a solid deal still.

WC Friends for ~$50ea https://www.backcountrygear.com/active-protection-cams/brand/wild-country.html or less if you just get the .4-.75 set. A worthy alternative or double rack for the new C4s

The new C4’s are nice in the larger sizes like everyone’s said. The trigger catch is nice when hauling boat anchors up a climb. I grabbed a double of the new friends versus C4’s the stem is a little more flexible and the springs to the lobes have a little more tension than the c4’s Which is nice. Some of my friends didn’t like a harder trigger pull, but I could care less. The adjustable slings are nice even if it is just the length of a carabiner. It’s actually noticeable in the drag reduction on long pitches if you extend them all. 

Justin. S wrote: The new C4’s are nice in the larger sizes like everyone’s said. The trigger catch is nice when hauling boat anchors up a climb. I grabbed a double of the new friends versus C4’s the stem is a little more flexible and the springs to the lobes have a little more tension than the c4’s Which is nice. Some of my friends didn’t like a harder trigger pull, but I could care less. The adjustable slings are nice even if it is just the length of a carabiner. It’s actually noticeable in the drag reduction on long pitches if you extend them all. 

Ditto. 

I went with Friends 0.5-3, new C4s #1-6 for wide and doubles.They are very much interchangeable in use so far. I'm sure I will occasionally find a placement where the extendable sling is clutch, or the slightly larger 2 & 3 sized Friends help. I can use less alpine slings or conserve them which is noticeable.
[Totems/basics/MCs for doubles to 0.75]

Tyler Johnson wrote: That sweet, sweet rush of new climbing equipment on its way.

Thanks for talking me into it, ya'll.

What site is this?

Tyler Schiller wrote:

What site is this?

Looks like the moose jaw colors

Moosejaw. AJ has 12% cash back for them right now.

I just replaced my previous gen C4s (most dated from 2012) with a fresh double rack that is half new gen C4s and half Ultralights.  I haven't climbed on them yet but the weight difference is noticeable.  I'd spend the extra $50 to get the new version instead of the old version.  I couldn't justify the price of a double rack of Ultralights but I entertained the thought very briefly.

Like you, Jason, I own a mixture of ultralights and 2019 C4s. I owned the ULs prior to the new version of the C4 and, frankly, if I had a do-over I'd probably only get the new C4s rather than the ULs. The weight difference between the new C4 and UL works out to about a half-ounce per cam. But the 2019 C4s seem so much more durable in your hand. And I love the trigger keepers on the big cams. The 4 and 5 are now actually reasonable to carry when you need one. 

Call CS and just ask them, I added a new style 5 to an existing back order and they applied the discount. 

Justin Swrote: I grabbed a double of the new friends versus C4’s the stem is a little more flexible and the springs to the lobes have a little more tension than the c4’s Which is nice. Some of my friends didn’t like a harder trigger pull, but I could care less.

Necro-ing this thread to ask, does spring tension on cams translate to any real world performance differences (obviously zero spring tension would) or is it one of those intangible feelings that only serve to sway our preferences for one brand or another? I’m hoping this is a physics question rather than another C4s vs the World cam argument.

Leif Mahoneywrote:

Necro-ing this thread to ask, does spring tension on cams translate to any real world performance differences (obviously zero spring tension would) or is it one of those intangible feelings that only serve to sway our preferences for one brand or another? I’m hoping this is a physics question rather than another C4s vs the World cam argument.

I think this excerpt below from a Climbing.com cam maintenance article might help. It would seem that so long as the cam's springs are supplying enough tension to help push the lobes outward and thus, "lock in" the cam to the position needed to do its job, the nominal differences in spring tension between manufacturers shouldn't matter. After all, the manufacturers are break testing their products so you know that they've got enough tension to hold that many kilonewtons of force each size is quoted for, assuming they're placed well. I think that if anything, adding even more spring tension might help prevent the cam from walking to some extent, but if there was a lot more spring tension than what we're used to, I imagine it could be enough to propel the cam out of a placement which would be bad.

From the article:

It’s important to keep cams clean, not only for function but also for safety—namely, holding power. “In that moment before the cam actually engages and you get all that outward force, the only thing that’s holding the cam in is the friction between the lobes and the rock,” says Karn. “And the only thing that’s giving you any outward force is the spring tension. If you have dirty, sticky cams, you’re giving them a way higher chance to skate out at that critical instant.”