Fall from 2nd Flatiron [video; somewhat disturbing]

I would think a new climber would know this is a bad idea in the same way that a beginner skier knows it’s a bad idea to huck themselves off a 100 foot cliff, or the same way a new swimmer knows it’s a bad idea for them to swim the English Channel. These are elite activities of elite athletes.

Edit:  Reminds me of Seth Enslow, a relative novice trying to go way too big, too soon.

Jim Turner wrote: I would think a new climber would know this is a bad idea in the same way that a beginner skier knows it’s a bad idea to huck themselves off a 100 foot cliff, or the same way a new swimmer knows it’s a bad idea for them to swim the English Channel. These are elite activities of elite athletes.

but GoPro

Show some respect.  I heard Anton was impressed enough to team with him for the next LPT record....

Hey MP Climbers,

I've been a part of this community a long time, and I've always been proud to say so. I've appreciated the many compassionate comments and well-wishes toward Kyle that have been posted in this thread.

Some of the comments, however, have been less than kind, and I'm having a hard time understanding why that is. This thread is about a climber who made a serious mistake and lived to tell about it. This mistake is particularly intriguing because the fall was recorded on video, but that doesn't make it an anomaly. Everyone makes mistakes. The lucky ones live.

This fall was not intentional. Watch the video and listen to Kyle's breathing. He is scared. He is pumped. He can't climb down. This is a horrible situation to be in and I would not wish it on anyone. I've been there a couple of times, including in the Flatirons, and I'm lucky never to have taken an unroped fall.

Kyle is a real person. If you talked with him face to face, I suspect you would discover that he is a regular guy with normal needs and desires. He is out there getting stuff done and wants to be noticed for it. Who of us can't empathize with that?

A good life rule is to attribute the best possible motives to people we don't know. As climbers and particularly on a public forum, could we try to live by that credo?

Thanks in advance for considering this request.

Kyle, I hope you make a full recovery, and I hope you are able to get back on the rock soon.

Paul Hutton wrote:

The casual attitude is actually humility. A melodramatic attitude would indicate that he thinks he's something special. The rescuers choose this course in their lives. No one's making them do it. People look for risky ways of life because it's an edgy endeavor. They're curious about discovering their abilities. And rescue teams get assembled because it's needed. To drop all the blame on one person for why a rescue team would get dispatched ain't right. Rescue teams just respond and want to succeed, bar none. To suggest that a rescue team isn't prepared and are putting themselves in danger is actually insulting to the rescuers. Elite teams are normally composed of alpha personalities, and we're blessed to have the few alpha personalities that are willing to go to work for the needs of others. Call me up to go save him if others won't. I won't charge a thing, and I WILL get him out. I put myself through training for it and it won't go to waste. In regard to being concerned that others may not be served from this video when they make their own decision on soloing a rock formation, that's on them. Again, this video perfectly demonstrates a good reason for NOT soloing unfamiliar terrain. To claim that some may interpret that soloing 5.12 is OK or easier and inciting others to bash this guy on this concept is an unnecessary fabrication aka irrelevant and more negative load on him. The main takeaway is if someone can solo 5.10 in boots, but fall on a flatiron, anyone can.He may be very successful on other various types of terrain. Bears in Yosemite have soloed 5.10. He acknowledges that he almost died, and is taking it upon himself to thank those that saved his dumbass. I've soloed a flatiron with the guidance of a friend. I've never thought of onsight soloing a flatiron while bearing in mind that I'm bullet proof. This is after onsight soloing things that made me freeze and fear for my life. No one told me I couldn't. I just went for it. Your bashing is invalid.

Christ I hope if I get hurt it's not an Elite Alpha Male force coming to rescue me... sounds like a suicide squad.

Are we seeing the same SAR teams?  I'm in SLC where we definitely have some qualified SAR.   Though some could have gone without the extra burrito... or last 100 extra.

"To suggest that a rescue team isn't prepared and are putting themselves in danger is actually insulting to the rescuers. "

LOL!

It's this attitude that gets rescues hurt or killed every year IMO.   My friend has a serious skiing accident and had to get SAR.   The SAR team consisted of the small town local sheriff and some volunteers.  They brought snowmobiles which couldn't get up the thin snow and trees.Then were forced to posthole thigh deep snow because they couldn't borrow flotation before starting the "rescue"  This is after repeatedly needing directions to get to a very well known trailhead and not being able to use the GPS coordinates.While their effort to help was respectable they really weren't equipped to deal with the situation and were surprised when the helicopter couldn't pick them off too... They eventually had to turn around because they didn't have overnight equipment to survive the storm.

If you think it's the A team coming to get you... I'm sorry but you're gonna be let down.

EDIT:  Kind of off topic.   Grateful for all help that's freely offered and have the upmost respect for regular people willing to work SAR

Mark Oveson wrote: Hey MP Climbers,

I've been a part of this community a long time, and I've always been proud to say so. I've appreciated the many compassionate comments and well-wishes toward Kyle that have been posted in this thread.

Some of the comments, however, have been less than kind, and I'm having a hard time understanding why that is. This thread is about a climber who made a serious mistake and lived to tell about it. This mistake is particularly intriguing because the fall was recorded on video, but that doesn't make it an anomaly. Everyone makes mistakes. The lucky ones live.

This fall was not intentional. Watch the video and listen to Kyle's breathing. He is scared. He is pumped. He can't climb down. This is a horrible situation to be in and I would not wish it on anyone. I've been there a couple of times, including in the Flatirons, and I'm lucky never to have taken an unroped fall.

Kyle is a real person. If you talked with him face to face, I suspect you would discover that he is a regular guy with normal needs and desires. He is out there getting stuff done and wants to be noticed for it. Who of us can't empathize with that?

A good life rule is to attribute the best possible motives to people we don't know. As climbers and particularly on a public forum, could we try to live by that credo?

Thanks in advance for considering this request.

Kyle, I hope you make a full recovery, and I hope you are able to get back on the rock soon.

There are two things that determine your treatment following a mistake. 

The first is the gravity (no pun intended) of your mistake. For example, nobody would say a parent living below the poverty line stealing food for their family is a terrible person even though we can all agree that stealing is wrong (cue fixed gear debate). However, if you commit an act of animal cruelty, I would think we can all agree that is less forgivable than the previous example.

The second is your response to the mistake. Acting contrite, apologetic, and taking actions that demonstrate an understanding of the wrongdoing and an attempt to do better goes a long way. Michael Vick is a good example of this. Many people will never forgive him for his acts of animal cruelty, however, many who initially would not forgive him have changed their opinion due to his exemplary behavior subsequent to the bad act and his apparent genuine remorse for the act.

In the case of Kyle, firstly he did something we can all agree is objectively stupid. Regardless of the grade of the climb, he "thought" it was 5.13 and tried to do it in tennis shoes. This is something not even Honnold would attempt on his best day. As such, the mistake was objectively stupid and carried consequences far beyond Kyle's own death or injury. His family and friends, access to the Flatirons, potentially injuring climbers below, falling in front of innocent bystanders who may be traumatized by what they witnessed, putting SAR to work and potentially at risk unnecessarily, to name a few. Unlike Honnold, he had no comprehension of what he was doing. There was no calculation of risk, no consideration for his actions. Just an objectively terrible decision. Even with all that said, making a stupid decision, unto itself, is not unforgivable.

However, it is the conduct after the mistake that really is the issue here. Not only is Kyle not remorseful, apologetic, or humbled. To the contrary he seems to be emboldened; lashing out at those who question his decision and using this accident as a way to glorify himself. To those making excuses that maybe a head injury is a contributing factor, I will admit if there is medical documentation that he is not right, his actions would not be as offensive. However, if he truly had a traumatic brain injury, I doubt he'd be being released from the hospital, doing newspaper interviews, scanning the forums, posting videos, and being combative with anyone who questions his act. His comments indicate he is going to do this again, he is not sorry, everyone who disagrees with him is wrong, and this event was simply an unfortunate accident.

This is a 26 year old man. While I am firmly against cyber bullying, belittling, or demeaning anyone, I don't think any of those apply when you point out that someone made an objectively stupid decision and is refusing to take responsibility for it. Not only is he failing to take responsibility for it, he is glorifying the act to others who may think that the risk is much lower than it is because they see a cool youtube video. You can bifurcate not wanting to see someone get hurt from pointing out that the reason that they are in that position is because their decision making was an abject effing disaster. You can also bifurcate wanting someone to heal up quickly from an accident while explaining that their conduct after the accident does not reflect any sense of remorse or responsibility and in many ways, is encouraging others to make the same ludicrous decision.

Edited to Add. If anyone thinks I am hiding behind an avatar, send me a PM. I'm happy to share my personal information and meet in real life although I'm not really sure how that affects the legitimacy of my point. 

Mark Oveson wrote: Hey MP Climbers,

I've been a part of this community a long time, and I've always been proud to say so. I've appreciated the many compassionate comments and well-wishes toward Kyle that have been posted in this thread.

Some of the comments, however, have been less than kind, and I'm having a hard time understanding why that is. This thread is about a climber who made a serious mistake and lived to tell about it. This mistake is particularly intriguing because the fall was recorded on video, but that doesn't make it an anomaly. Everyone makes mistakes. The lucky ones live.

This fall was not intentional. Watch the video and listen to Kyle's breathing. He is scared. He is pumped. He can't climb down. This is a horrible situation to be in and I would not wish it on anyone. I've been there a couple of times, including in the Flatirons, and I'm lucky never to have taken an unroped fall.

Kyle is a real person. If you talked with him face to face, I suspect you would discover that he is a regular guy with normal needs and desires. He is out there getting stuff done and wants to be noticed for it. Who of us can't empathize with that?

A good life rule is to attribute the best possible motives to people we don't know. As climbers and particularly on a public forum, could we try to live by that credo?

Thanks in advance for considering this request.

Kyle, I hope you make a full recovery, and I hope you are able to get back on the rock soon.

Kyle is not a "climber", you have to earn that title. 

Mark Oveson - while it’s hard to find any fault with your thoughts and suggestions as they are sincerely admirable, the counterpoint is that while the majority here strongly agrees with you at first, they inevitably adjust their level of sympathy based on the words and conduct of the victim pre-and post incident.  In this specific case, I think Kyle has put himself squarely in the crosshairs to take some ribbing.  As others said, to merely offer sincere sympathy is to de facto condone his actions as those of any normal climber....simply not the case.  Some people need a slap upside the head to help them re-calibrate. None more so than 26 yr old males looking to “slay granny cooter” and solo 5.13 after a few months of climbing....

Oh- and to the guilty:  please quit quoting the whole F’ing post of everyone’s long treatise...

i honestly feel pretty bad for this kid.  my guess is that we will find out that he was born with a learning disability or something like that, and we will all feel pretty bad about it in the end.

slim wrote: i honestly feel pretty bad for this kid.  my guess is that we will find out that he was born with a learning disability or something like that, and we will all feel pretty bad about it in the end.

What learning disability excuses this behavior? I'm not sure you can claim ADHD made you so restless you had to solo a "5.13" and then brag about it after you fell.

Read his youtube comments. He's doubling down as hard as our sprayer in chief.

" I beat Down’s syndrome twice, so recovering from this is cake. "

slim wrote: i honestly feel pretty bad for this kid.  my guess is that we will find out that he was born with a learning disability or something like that, and we will all feel pretty bad about it in the end.

26 years old is not a "kid", that is a fully grown adult.

wonderwoman wrote:

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to call that out!  haha!

PS - I hope the climber has a full recovery.  I am sure he will realize how lucky he is once he is back on his feet.  

We all learn.  Sometimes the process really hurts or nearly kills us.  (Not that I would ever free solo anything.  Bouldering is too dangerous for my taste!)

No he won't and he isn't learning. Unless he is trolling super hard on youtube (def. possible) he's feeling emboldened like a superhero after surviving this. 

and he's getting money and fame from it. Positive reinforcement. Great.

"Max Munchinski first of all I’m sorry my actions hurt so many climbers vaginas. When this happens in mtb. people typically don’t set up knitting circle bash forums on mtb. project, but climbers are obviously a different breed of pussy. I’m not afraid of heights and love scrambling but took it a tad too far. I took someone’s word for what the rating was but was obviously wrong due to the amount of puss climbers that all banded together in the name of Alex Honda and debunked my misinformation lol. I wasn’t born with climbing knowledge instilled In my brain like all of you kiddos.
I brought my GoPro bc I was going to try a harder climb as approsed to my usual scrambling laps, but im sure glad I did! Bc I’m not only getting a fat check from Aflac, but also ViralHog. 
Who cares what I do with my body, my adrenaline and my footage? The very bored, very scared climbing community, that’s who. Y’all shame yourselves, not me.
I’ll keep boasting and trolling cause I know it hurts your fragile little self obsess community of sissy’s."

WTF - seriously, he's gonna go viral and think this was the best thing ever. And inspire others. 

Hello, Serge here from Newsflare. Amazing, terrifying clip. I'm glad you survived! Could you email us to discuss a paid media opportunity? newsdesk AT newsflare DOT com thank you 

From reading the posts, I couldn't bring myself to watch the video.

Will this make RI whipper of the week?

Matt N wrote: "I’ll keep boasting and trolling cause I know it hurts your fragile little self obsess community of sissy’s."

WTF - seriously, he's gonna go viral and think this was the best thing ever. And inspire others.

It sure seems like TBI.  Hopefully he recovers enough to reflect a bit instead of cratering in the next year or two.

Perry Norris wrote: Will this make RI whipper of the week?

I fear the helmet police might be too hard on him.

Occam's Razor suggests the kid is a tool.  Ignore him.

homeboy is keeping it reallll classy in the youtube comments....

Gotta love how so many of his responses resort to either calling people pussies, talking about their vaginas being hurt, or saying that he banged their mom.  

Obviously a class act and not sexist in the least.