Tom Randall & Pete Whitaker Onsight Kill Artist

Parker Wrozek wrote:

I would be curious if she can lay back since she has the forearm issue where she can't crimp. It is the whole reason she started climbing wide.

you don't need to crimp to layback....

 also, if a pitch is 5.14 if you gaston it upside-down, 5.11 if you layback it, or 5.8 if you handjam it, it should be graded 5.8.... Even if your physical limitations prevent you from climbing a pitch a certain way, experienced climbers should be able to roughly tell what the grade would be using the appropriate technique... 

abandon moderation wrote: Badass.

FA story here: youtube.com/watch?v=Z4zv894…

From the video, I don't think they thought it would ever be done without bolts as it's probably sketchy as all hell. I assume this is the second ascent?

She bolted it so that she wouldn't risk a fall on cams that "might" dislodge the "mental block" and kill everyone? Seems like a good reason to throw some bolts in.

Tom climbed it sans bolts because they were chopped?
So, by placing cams behind the block did he recklessly endanger everyone?

mpech wrote:

you don't need to crimp to layback....

 also, if a pitch is 5.14 if you gaston it upside-down, 5.11 if you layback it, or 5.8 if you handjam it, it should be graded 5.8.... Even if your physical limitations prevent you from climbing a pitch a certain way, experienced climbers should be able to roughly tell what the grade would be using the appropriate technique... 

I don't know the mechanisms of the injury and how it works or how tips the lay back is which is forearm intensive. 

And yes, that is how grading works...

Things get downgraded all the time when someone sees new beta. I am not questioning any of that.

I was just curious if how the WB climbed it was doable by Pam. By doing it and suggesting the beta and grade that is where it starts. That can all change from there with repeats, new beta, holds breaking, etc.

My understanding is that she basically gets pumped super quick and can’t really train her way out of it.  I could definitely see that affecting a layback, those get pumpy fast.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know the answer to that. Let me call the Tradiban Hotline and find out.

What's that number?!

Danny Parker wrote:

I've climbed those boulders and can confirm that they are significantly easier than Century Crack.

Another non-sequitur...

That is not the claim. The claim is that, were you to stack three or four of them on top of one another and combine it with the requisite filler climbing, that the resulting climb would be significantly harder than Century Crack. Thus, the claim I made then (and now) is that to claim Century Crack is just that, three or four v8/9 boulders stacked on top of one another, is absurd. This claim has been subsequently backed up by the fact that years later, those two remain incapable of climbing that grade of crack, of any size, anywhere near second go. As a result, I remain skeptical that CC is legitimate 14b.

caughtinside wrote: Wasn’t that a single boulder that Tom couldn’t do? I remember him writing something about it, said it was legit hard, he couldn’t do it over 2 sessions, but wanted to move on to other stuff. Seemed reasonable.

Yes, he failed on one particular boulder (8 Ounces to Freedom), and of the other two he did he started one after the crux (Monsters Inc., he got it second go and called it soft), and did the other one (Simiantics) after an entire afternoon siege effort which included foot long athletic tape ticks, which is one of the specific boulders he cited as representing the difficulty of a single crux on CC.

Deleted Facebook post, deleted Instagram post referring to the deleted Facebook post, deleted/dead webpages(way back machine is useful), years of JNE sounding the alarm to grade inflation and arguing with everyone, seemingly humble brits that confirm JNE’s thoughts on the matter, JNE being accused of grade inflation himself, a mediocre professional climber/writer/producer stoking the flames, and a Yale graduate who’s an artist that seems like a narcissist who clicks the like button on text photos that deal with narcissism.

Looks like some climbing sponsors are trying to possibly censor this whole thing.

This is like a gruesome car accident. It’s something you shouldn’t really look at, but you end up gazing at it anyways. 

JNE wrote:

 to claim Century Crack is just that, three or four v8/9 boulders stacked on top of one another, is absurd. 

Hey Justin, this also seems wrong to me. Three or four Vedauwoo V8/9 boulders would only result in maybe a 30' route. In my opinion Vedauwoo boulders are just technical climbing with a big sit up, at no point doing a boulder or route in Vedauwoo have I even come close to the effort needed for Century. I have not climbed a second 14B to give the route consensus, but if it were to get downgraded in the future, then I would also recommend we downgrade everything in Vedauwoo by a sizable amount. 

You are one of the most capable offwidth climbers out there, you really ought to go try Century one of these days so you can actually weigh in on the grade.

JNE wrote:

As a result, I remain skeptical that CC is legitimate 14b.

Dont you know you have to send something to downgrade it?

Onsight? Was it though?

Are you suggesting they lied about onsighting the route just so they can complain about overboltinf and hyping routes?

Ted Pinson wrote: Are you suggesting they lied about onsighting the route just so they can complain about overboltinf and hyping routes?

Not at all. I'm suggesting that technically it would be a flash since they watched video of Pam climbing it. You all are splitting hairs about everything else?

Oh.  Fair point, I suppose.  With the hysteria in the rest of the thread I immediately went to that, sorry.

I love all the butthurt drama about shit that doesn't matter at all, what grade something is, who climbed what and how, where they put the bolts, what they said or didn't say on Fbook. Super gold gentleman, keep it up!

I'm mostly interested in what's PSP's reaction is. Any word on that?

Tradiban wrote: about shit that doesn't matter at all

But that's why we are all here. 

Even. You.

BillS wrote:
Darren - they didn’t use Pam’s beta - so...?

Exactly

Darren Mabe wrote:

But that's why we are all here. 

Even. You.

*whoosh!*

Darren Mabe wrote:

But that's why we are all here. 

Even. You.

I know! "Super gold gentleman, keep it up!"

The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air wrote:

*whoosh!*

Clearly