Are Rigid Friends still a thing?

Malcolm Daly wrote:

So how many broken Friend stems have you actually seen? I bought my first friend for $17 from Ray Jardine himself in the Valley in 1977 or 78 and I have never seen a broken one, have never had a friend break one and keep seeing the same broken Friend photo over and over. Ii think its like MSG, salt, cholesterol and bacon: maybe the hysterics have overshadowed the reality.

Eh, I've seen at least one fixed at the Voo that had snapped, can't remember what route but it was definitely there and broken over the trigger slot. It's really easy to do a gunks tie off and that also should make them a lot more stable so it seems like a natural thing to do when re-slinging (which probably ought to be done on any set of rigid friends that get acquired). But that's reassuring to hear that you've never run into it.

Daniel James wrote:

Eh, I've seen at least one fixed at the Voo that had snapped, can't remember what route but it was definitely there and broken over the trigger slot. It's really easy to do a gunks tie off and that also should make them a lot more stable so it seems like a natural thing to do when re-slinging (which probably ought to be done on any set of rigid friends that get acquired). But that's reassuring to hear that you've never run into it.

If you plan on plopping onto rigid stems in horizontals then sure (or for aid). But for standard granite or other splitter crack climbs its rarely a thing.

Betraying a Yose bias here.

Buck Rio wrote:

Could be, the last they were being locally SOLD was in the 90's. I worked part-time at REI at the time they stopped selling them (1997?). They may have been available overseas, or ordered direct from the Mfr.

My local shop (Black Dome in Asheville) was still selling them in the mid 2000s. They even had some funky mid-sizes for a while.

Daniel James wrote:

Eh, I've seen at least one fixed at the Voo that had snapped, can't remember what route but it was definitely there and broken over the trigger slot. 

I bet it was snapped during a failed attempt at removing it.

One of the first stuck cams I ever removed was a rigid Friend. It was badly stuck and undoubtedly several folks had tried to remove it. It was not far off the ground, so one rainy day I went to work on it with a range of tools. At one point I was hammering on the stem as hard as I could. The stem is clearly some high strength alloy, as I didn't even bend it. I believe a steel bar would have been more damaged by what I did than the Friend was.

Of course the Gunks tie-off makes it all moot.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

No you can't. A two axle cam doesn't protect 150' of crack any better, but arguably worse (more weight).

"Range" is Hype on a real crack climb where when you need 12 cams to protect the pitch you need 12 cams. Range has nothing to do with it, you can't carry less and then the weight is really a thing. A cam with more range does not protect a section that needs two cam placements.

Range only matters when you are a newbie (your first guess is more often right) or when you are limiting the rack to the fewest possible number of cams because you can space your pro more widely ie you only need one piece for the pitch so yes, take a cam with wide range.

The "Range" marketing hype also matters in places that aren't easy to protect (ie non-splitter) but don't get you up a full pitch crack climb where you just need a lot of cams. Then the argument can be made that the lightest possible cams are by far the best. Rigid stems are gonna be an incredible bang for the buck there.

Thanks for agreeing with me! My experience has been the same as yours, double axle cams are easier to use, and the OP is a gumby.

Like you, I find that in places like Eldo where splitter cracks are rare, being able to grab a cam with slightly better range is comforting.

Unless the old friends are free, I wouldn't put scarce resources into them. They are better than a Tricam, however, and also better than nothing.

I climbed with a set until Sept. 11, 2001. 9/11, I was coming back from City of Rocks through Pocatello and my flight got cancelled, along with all air traffic. One of my bags, and most of my rack never made it to Minneapolis. Luckily my buddy that I was climbing with had a car, and was willing to cut his trip short and drive me back to MN. I hade a RAGING case of poison ivy, which made the trip even more memorable.

Malcolm Daly wrote:

So how many broken Friend stems have you actually seen? I bought my first friend for $17 from Ray Jardine himself in the Valley in 1977 or 78 and I have never seen a broken one, have never had a friend break one and keep seeing the same broken Friend photo over and over. Ii think its like MSG, salt, cholesterol and bacon: maybe the hysterics have overshadowed the reality.

LOL never see a broken one, but I have never climbed in the Gunks either. I have taken a pretty good size fall onto one and it held, although it bent the axle. I am a heavy weight though...200  lbs. And I eat a LOT of bacon.

nbrown wrote:

My local shop (Black Dome in Asheville) was still selling them in the mid 2000s. They even had some funky mid-sizes for a while.

Were they simply left overs or were you actively ordering them? Could be that REI simply made the decision to stop carrying them in MN during that period, regardless, I don't think they were very popular here after the new flexible friends and Camelot's came out.

Buck Rio wrote:

That's fair, but you can cover a lot more crack with a two axle cam...a better comparison would be an old rigid stem and a UL Master Cam, black is 85 gm.

Double axle cams have greater range, and are basically the norm nowadays - but you can only place them once.

Gunks tie-off is worth doing but, in my experience, makes them a bit of a cluster to rack.

Buck Rio wrote:

Were they simply left overs or were you actively ordering them? Could be that REI simply made the decision to stop carrying them in MN during that period, regardless, I don't think they were very popular here after the new flexible friends and Camelot's came out.

The black forged friends with the red anodized lobes were most certainly manufactured into the early aughts. I ordered a bunch from Canada for my Creek rack at $32 Canadian a piece. I am a fan. 

Unfortunately I lent several to a friend for a creek trip, who let a party from Phoenix use them, and they walked away. He replaced them with Heliums, but it just isn't the same. 

the schmuck wrote:

The black forged friends with the red anodized lobes were most certainly manufactured into the early aughts. I ordered a bunch from Canada for my Creek rack at $32 Canadian a piece. I am a fan. 

I had the black forged with plain lobes. Must have a MN thing, because REI started carrying the Flex Friends in lieu of the forged in I think 1997-98. The ones with a cable, and a partial plastic cover on the sides and red lobes. 

Own 4 to 5 sets myself for the Creek and lend them to friends that get into town.  1 and 1 1/2 can be difficult to clean.  2 and 3 fill the void where crapolots are either baggy or too tight.  In all the years have only to repair trigger wires on the 3 1/2 and 4.  Oh yeh I climb with all other brands as well and my rack is a mishmash of friends, rigid and flex, camolots, tcu's, aliens,trango, HB's, Rock Empire, Wired Bliss and god knows what else.  Rigid stem friends work.  In the beginning they were and probably still are the cheapest, lightest and are way strong.  Love em hate em, they still work.  Oh yeh spent a lot of time in The Gunks in the early years and they are still on my rack when I go back east to climb there.  Ray got it right.

Buck Rio wrote:

I had the black forged with plain lobes. Must have a MN thing, because REI started carrying the Flex Friends in lieu of the forged in I think 1997-98. The ones with a cable, and a partial plastic cover on the sides and red lobes. 

Right. The Tech Friend and the Forged Friend were concurrent. The idea was that the Tech Friend had the ability to bend, while the Forged Friend was lighter. The Tech Friend was preceded by the Flexifriend, after which WC introduced the plastic sleeve to stiffen them up (otherwise the same unit). 

The clear anodized lobes on both were from 97 & 98 I believe, after which WC went to red anodization. Before the clear/silver, Friends were not anodized. The final version "original" Friends had color coded anodization, but by then the forged version was no more. 

Charles Vernon wrote: About eight years ago or so when I was unemployed... I had some of my best sends during that time, and generally climbed more mindfully.

Climbs hard because of rigid-stem Friends or climbs hard because of unemployed...   

Rigid friends are perfect for Indian Creek. And you need something that fits between camelot sizes, whether it's metolius, old style wild country or any other single axle. I like flexible cams in the 1 1/2 friend size and down for most crags (1 1/2 friends are tight green camelots). 2 friend (tight 1 camelot and up) and up I would still be carrying rigid friends as my A team, if it were not for my effort to be considerate of the superstitions of my climbing partners. Rigid stem friends are awesome.

Josh Janes wrote:

Climbs hard because of rigid-stem Friends or climbs hard because of unemployed...   

Chicken or the egg ;)

Different versions of the forged friends were produced well into the 2000s. The last versions had silver shafts and color coded cams.

Of course the tie off is assumed. Cut the factory sling off. Please note the tie off hole in the forged versions have sharp holes that have to be radiused. All versions will benefit from that.

the schmuck wrote:

Right. The Tech Friend and the Forged Friend were concurrent. The idea was that the Tech Friend had the ability to bend, while the Forged Friend was lighter. The Tech Friend was preceded by the Flexifriend, after which WC introduced the plastic sleeve to stiffen them up (otherwise the same unit). 

The clear anodized lobes on both were from 97 & 98 I believe, after which WC went to red anodization. Before the clear/silver, Friends were not anodized. The final version "original" Friends had color coded anodization, but by then the forged version was no more. 

I had the far right style...no tie off. I did not really like the trigger bar so much, too close to the lobes that prevented you from really burying a placement if you needed to, or at least retrieving a buried placement.

To the OP:
I have some rigids (2.5, 3.0, 3.5) that I bought circa 2004 for desert climbing, mostly because they were cheap (~$25ea, new), but also because certain sizes (2.0, 3.0) fill in the gaps between camalot sizes. 

They work, the price was right, and they’re reasonably light. Each of these virtues require a qualifier, however.

They work. Properly placed, they hold. The trouble I’ve had is that, once placed, they love to walk, they are easily flipped around by the rope, and in this process the lobes on one side can invert. I only find this to be a problem in these larger sizes; my 1.5 stays put.  Consequently, I rack them with quickdraws, which compromises virtue #3.  

Price is personal and subjective.

Light is pretty easy to come by these days, so the rigid Friends have definitely lost the advantage they held in the days of the potato-masher Camelot.  

Lastly, they’re durable as hell, which requires no qualifier.

All that said, I personally only keep them on the Creek rack and even then I only really use the 2.5 and 3 when I anticipate the between-sizes thing to be important*. This is because my partners and I have a metric fuckton of units; your situation sounds different.  Would I buy them again? No. 

*I don’t leave the ground without my black Metolius if tight hands are in the picture. 2.0 Friends are the same. Interestingly, the new dbl-axle WC Friends are slightly larger, so as to cover the dread camalot gap. 

Josh Janes wrote:

Climbs hard because of rigid-stem Friends or climbs hard because of unemployed...   

Hi Josh!

Maybe it's a stretch to say they improved my climbing. But, I do remember having to think more carefully about what I was doing and climb with a little more commitment than normal while still getting most of the benefits of having camming units. You've seen me overprotect shit before! But, you're right, I'm sure that being unemployed and therefore climbing a few days a week helped my lead head too.

More relevant to the OP, I think a mixture of rigid friends in the medium to large sizes and more flexible cams in the smaller sizes is fine for a starter rack, if you're on a budget.