Best kind-of-hard multi-pitch in North America?

blakeherrington wrote:

Where's your list for Yosemite?

In no particular order:

1. Rostrum

2. Blind Faith

3. Astroman

4. Moratorium to East Buttress

5. RNWFHD

6. Mt. Watkins.

7. Nose

8. Salathe

9. West Face.

10. The Shield.

11. Mescalito

12. Zodiac

13. Not meeting your strict criteria but more physical than most: Steck-Salathe and NEB Higher, The Good Book (many to add here).

14. West Face of Sentinel

That's just a start...I could probably add 1/2 dozen more mind blowing classics with a little thought ie Basket Case (never been near that one) or Great Escape etc. routes I only know of by reputation.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

In no particular order:

1. Rostrum

2. Blind Faith

3. Astroman

4. Moratorium to East Buttress

5. RNWFHD

6. Mt. Watkins.

7. Nose

8. Salathe

9. West Face.

10. The Shield.

11. Mescalito

12. Zodiac

13. Not meeting your strict criteria but more physical than most: Steck-Salathe and NEB Higher, The Good Book (many to add here).

14. West Face of Sentinel

That's just a start...I could probably add 1/2 dozen more mind blowing classics with a little thought ie Basket Case (never been near that one) or Great Escape etc. routes I only know of by reputation.

Nice list, but last time I checked many of those don’t go free at anywhere close to 5.11-5.12.

OP doesn't say they have to be 100% free climbs, hombre. 

He says “free-climbable between 11a-12b”. Usually when people ask for that they aren’t looking for a cam hook and aider endeavor.

Maybe we have different definitions of “free climbable”.

JCM wrote: He says “free-climbable between 11a-12b”. Usually when people ask for that they aren’t looking for a cam hook and aider endeavor.

Maybe we have different definitions of “free climbable”.

Vast majority of all of those routes go entirely free. Nose and Salathe go 95% free at those ratings and are arguably the best hard free-climbable routes in the world. Mt Watkins 85%....ok you got me on The Shield and the other predominately aid walls, gonna go cry myself to sleep now. :)

Anyone capable of 5.12b trad that doesn't have Nose/Salathe on their list is an idiot.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Anyone capable of 5.12b trad that doesn't have Nose/Salathe on their list is an idiot.

This is true, I’ll give you that.

Honest question, not being rhetorical:

What do those of you excluding the Rostrum from not only your top 5 but your *top 25* have against it? Is it because of the ledge atop p3? The last pitch? What are the flaws that keep it from being top tier in your book?

Same question for West Face of El Cap. What warts does that route have? 

i agree, not sure why no Rostrum mention. yeah the last pitch is pretty meh. but finish with either of the mind-blowing roof finishes and the route is even more frikin amazing

not sure why west face doesn't stand out to me.. it is good. I think Blake is right about yos not making it into top25 too much in this context. there are sooo many good routes there, and sooo many good ones that never get done. but only a few really stand out.

down to it though, the top 3 have been nailed to death. astro, rw, moonlight. but i guess i'm keeping to US

Have you done the emporer, blake?

btw, where has a climbing season less than 2 months?

Sirius wrote: Honest question, not being rhetorical:

What do those of you excluding the Rostrum from not only your top 5 but your *top 25* have against it? Is it because of the ledge atop p3? The last pitch? What are the flaws that keep it from being top tier in your book?

Same question for West Face of El Cap. What warts does that route have? 

Probably they have never done it.

Its Peter Croft's favorite route. Should be all anyone needs to know.

Sirius wrote: Honest question, not being rhetorical:

What do those of you excluding the Rostrum from not only your top 5 but your *top 25* have against it? Is it because of the ledge atop p3? The last pitch? What are the flaws that keep it from being top tier in your book?

Same question for West Face of El Cap. What warts does that route have? 

I thought it was a good route with a convenient approach, nice shade, and comfy ledges, but not nearly in the upper echelon that others make it out to be as far as top 5 or 10 in the nation. I thought it belonged with other good climbs like Shune's Buttress or Texas Hold 'em or Birds of Fire in RMNP. Here are a few of the flaws or reasons I think it has undeserved popularity and acclaim:

- You can walk into or out of the route after the first 1/3rd of the climbing
-It's super soft, especially by Valley standards, so it doesn't really earn the grade/satisfaction of achievement, especially for a testpiece or classic.
- You don't go to the top of a mountain, pinnacle, or wall. You actually just end up where you just had walked past and below the paved highway where you parked your car (I know the same applies to the Black Canyon), but bailing in the black is more consequential so topping out feels more significant.
- The variations and crisscrossing routes is evidence that you aren't really forced into a singular line (Blind Faith, Excellent adventure, Alien Roof, Rostrum Roof join or leave the normal route).
-Personally I just didn't think any of the pitches themselves were really excellent or memorable except for the second to last one, with some steep stemming. The last pitch was a generic sort of "escape" and I have no doubt that the harder variation finishes are better, but they are also simply different routes, so they don't make the normal route itself any better.
-If this feature was farther along the hillside upvalley from Washington Column, or if it didn't have paved roads above and below it which provided primary access to the Valley, or the approach was on a trail like Liberty Cap, it would would not have near the hype or acclaim.

Brian Prince wrote: i agree, not sure why no Rostrum mention. yeah the last pitch is pretty meh. but finish with either of the mind-blowing roof finishes and the route is even more frikin amazing

not sure why west face doesn't stand out to me.. it is good. I think Blake is right about yos not making it into top25 too much in this context. there are sooo many good routes there, and sooo many good ones that never get done. but only a few really stand out.

down to it though, the top 3 have been nailed to death. astro, rw, moonlight. but i guess i'm keeping to US

Have you done the emporer, blake?

btw, where has a climbing season less than 2 months?

No I haven't climbed the Emperor or nearly anything in the sierra, never been the needles, and never been to Cal Dome. I remember hearing about Bubbs Creek Wall and Charlotte Dome years ago, and in writing my list a few days ago I came across "The Emperor" which looked amazing. Vitaliy has climbed a lot of granite in a lot of places, and so I'd trust his opinions of The Emperor (plus the photos and reviews of others on this site agree with his assessment), My inclusions from California (outside Yosemite, where I have climbed the discussed routes) were based on listening to the opinions of others, and having climbed comparable granite elsewhere. It seems like for 5.11 and 5.12 granite freeclimbs, California outside of Yosemite is really the world's best place.

I like how Harumphster's and Hudon's lists of the best 5.11a to  .12b protectable freeclimbs in the trad climbing specific forum both include a bunch of aid walls like Zodiac or the Nose. They are so clearly irrelevant to the goals of the original poster, is it reading comprehension or just a subtle desire to remind folks that they know how to aid climb and want to sound like authoritative valley experts? [sarcasm] By all means go climb The Zodiac if you want a world class 5.11 freeclimb, because that route surely needs more slow aid gumbies on it, and you might be fresh enough to finally put on rock shoes and enjoy a ** 5.11+ Pitch 15.[/sarcasm]

 It makes me wonder what list of routes they'd suggest if asked for the best long aid climbs between C2 and C4. Maybe they'd suggest a bunch of free routes ("hey, if you just cheat and aid up them and then they become aid climbs!")

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:
Probably they have never done [the Rostrum].
Its Peter Croft's favorite route. Should be all anyone needs to know.

Hill's favorite was Lev29, a route which nobody here has suggested deserves inclusion in the top 25. Appeals to authority are convenient when it is an authority we like that day.