Micro Nuts

Hey all! I'm looking into expanding the gear I have to include some more micro wires, and was curious to know people's general thoughts about the varieties presently on the market, since a lot of the old threads tend to focus on RPs and such.

Black Diamond has it's offset and regular micro stoppers, and DMM has its brass offsets and the IMPs so those are what I am mostly looking at (as I already have a set of peenuts but feel free to put in your 2¢ on them too).  Presently what I am most inclined to get would be brass offsets #2,3,4, and either IMPs or regular Black Diamond micros on the same sort of size range, but would love to hear other people's thoughts and recommendations.

I presently climb in England and Wales but will be back in the states soon enough, and am looking mostly for versatility across the board.

I keep a set of the 3-4 largest DMM brass offsets, still solid enough and find their places nicely in thin spots.
But this all depends where you climb.

DMM Brass off sets

IMPS

Recently bought a few of the DMMs and love them.  

Ted Pinson wrote: Recently bought a few of the DMMs and love them.  

brass offset, IMP, or peenuts?

Also generally wondering what sizes people actually carry for free climbing

I have the BD micro stoppers and never even bother carrying them anymore. I also have the DMM brass offsets and place them often. I usually bring the 3-4 or largest sizes, depending on the climb. I think I have placed the #2 once or twice. I have the #0 and #1 but have never placed them free climbing. 

I like the DMM brass (both offset and IMP) in sizes 2 or 3 through 6. They transition into the alloy offset #7 perfectly. 

If you have peanuts I don’t think brass offsets are the first thing I’d get.  (They’re great if you’ve got the dough)

I’d look at the two biggest BD microstoppers.   I’ve found them very useful in thin fairly parallel quartzite cracks.  I carry 3-4 brass offsets and 2 of the BD nuts.   Covers my micro needs very well.  

I don't climb that hard anymore where a micro would be necessary, but BITD my HB Brassies were the envy of the old timers.

They get stuck, and your wife will kink the cable when she tries to clean them, then you will throw them away because the annoying frayed wire will be constantly poking/stabbing you.

A number 2 BD microstopper is rated 3kN

, a number 2 DMM IMP (same size) is rated 5kN. Gear strength is overemphasized by climbing theoreticians, most of the time the piece pulls before it breaks, but in these small sizes the wire does fail in practice and this considerable difference rules out BD for me.

Parallel sided IMPs, brass offsets and peenuts can each work best in different rock types. Ask your local expert. I use all at different times but probably wouldn't carry them all on the same route.

Daniel James wrote:

Also generally wondering what sizes people actually carry for free climbing

And is anyone really trusting micronuts for catching a fall while free climbing? Or do they tend to be judged more like an iffy placement with regular sized gear a la “I’ll get more gear as soon as I can. Don’t want to fall on that.” Or “I better back that up with another, equalized, etc..”

It is an honest question. I’ve assumed I just would not trust micronuts enough to be worth carrying them at any point the past 15 years. I also do not lead all that hard though I do carry micro cams about half the time.  And I have fallen on lead on a ball nut ... very low fall factor; and it held.

Buck Rio wrote:They get stuck, and your wife will kink the cable when she tries to clean them, then you will throw them away because the annoying frayed wire will be constantly poking/stabbing you.

Boooo. Back to remedial school for you, sir. :)

I’ve fallen on RP2s (=IMP #2) up to 30’ and they have held. Hard igneous rock and low fall-factor were key, thin stretchy rope might have helped a little.

I’ve taken a 60’ fall (FF1) onto an RP4 on granite and the brass extruded through the placement: it came out a size 3. Fortunately the next gear was good enough to catch me.  

Bill Lawry wrote:

Boooo. Back to remedial school for you, sir. :)

The old brassies were a b*tch to clean if you set them too heavy, meaning if you set them at all. My darling wife didn't always use subtlety to remove stuff :)

Buck Rio wrote:

The old brassies were a b*tch to clean if you set them too heavy, meaning if you set them at all. My darling wife didn't always use subtlety to remove stuff :)

agree, and once they get weighted by anyone bigger than a peenut they can def weld them selves in

Metolius Astro Nuts are excellent

Bill Lawry wrote:

And is anyone really trusting micronuts for catching a fall while free climbing?...It is an honest question. I’ve assumed I just would not trust micronuts enough to be worth carrying them

I don't carry them regularly, but as needed for specific routes. I have fallen on them in the past, but I usually do the nest/life boat thing--place many and place often. Maybe pieces are connected, maybe in series, but 3 or 4 micros nuts in as many feet is usually plenty iinspiring enough to push it. Haven't snapped a wire yet in a fall.

Here's a good micro nut comparison page:

http://www.rockclimbingcompany.co.uk/Technical-Information/Micro-Nuts.html

thanks for the input everyone!

http://www.rockclimbingcompany.co.uk/Technical-Information/Micro-Nuts.html

I've definitely found that useful to look at! it's a shame it doesn't have the brass offsets.

I am intrigued somewhat by the Metolius astro nuts, but will probably ignore them if only because I don't see them in shops in England at all.

I'm presently UK-based, so I have the advantage of being in the habit of climbing on half ropes which can allow for spreading a fall onto two marginal pieces really easily (no sling equalization faff.

I'm thinking I won't aim with anything smaller than #2 IMP/offset (or their BD equivalent), in part because I don't really want to buy extra pieces and in part because even in a perfect placement it's going to take really good circumstance for those to hold. I don't really aim to be whipping onto micros, but it'd be nice to be able to take on some climbs that otherwise would be guaranteed ground fall.

Elsewhere the input I was given was recommending BD's iron stuff for hard rock like granite or quartzite (to avoid the extrusion issue brassies can face) but using DMM's brass stuff on softer rock (which is what I'm more going to encounter here now) due to it's higher likelihood of molding into a placement instead of breaking the rock. For offset vs regular they just said they like having both for variety.

While the peenuts aren't as low a profile as the brass offsets, since I presently have them as a tiny offset option, it sounds like having a tiny non offset option is probably best (maybe IMP 2/3/4, since that seems to cover the range from 'theoretically still can be sound for lead falls' to the overlap I'd have into the #1 wallnut)

I use the Metolius Curve Nuts, and have the two similarly shaped Astro Nuts immediately below their range.  Any smaller than that and I would be afraid they would be more likely to deform than my RPs.