New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #6

Russ Walling wrote:  Susan does carry a mint from a Mexican restaurant in case we have to bivy.  Seriously...

Based on the mint, I believe that Susan actually has a Donner Party contigency plan, Russ, that she just hasn't shared with you. The mint is for after that.

FWIW, for those times that I do carry water on a climb, I just clip one of these to the back of my harness. I like the soft packs particularly since nearly getting beheaded by a rolling, and full, Nalgene that someone dropped from the top of Tahquitz.

​Soft water bottle with carbiner​​​

I think most people need some water, although the huge amounts recommended for endurance sports are way too heavy to carry on climbs.  I try to follow Steph Davis' advice: https://stephdavis.co/blog/light-is-right-tips-for-climbing-long-routes/ .

Not drinking enough water while climbing last September landed me in the hospital for 8 days. Won't make that mistake again. 

There was a time when water wasn't much of a factor, but I got schooled a couple of years ago on the Gunnison Trail in Black Canyon of the Gunnison.  After getting passed by a nurse and her partner who recognized I was in distress and gave me some of their water when we I reached the top we found 3 rescue rangers with binoculars, they had been watching me and were poised to come get me.  Ok, I am no longer 20....

Hiking, running or biking sans water is different than climbing most multi pitch routes. Also, the time of year and temps will greatly influence the amount of water you might need.

I would strongly recommend reading Stef Davis' posts, particularly about gear. Many climbers own and climb with way too much gear. Avoid super specialized gear or items that have a single use that you will not be using most times you climb. Basic climbing gear is best and has multiple applications.

As in life, more stuff is rarely better or desirable. It encumbers you and slows you down. That can be more dangerous than paring down to what is essential.

Nine laps of 'Fascination' grade 21on top rope yesterday, set of 2, set of 3 set of 4. Felt good on it. Got it pretty much wired...
The crux move is really cool, an undercling pulling directly up opposed by a high right foot pressing down in perfect opposition, with a left foot placed out smearing with knee bent at 45° allowing for a cool move with the left hand to a nice crimp, pull up on that trusting the left foot smear to go for a slightly juggy sloper, match that, bust up to the last couple of moves. Great climb. Only 16m but pretty cool.
Rode my motorcycle to the bouldering club today in light rain, 50 ks there 50 ks back, had a nice bouldering sesh.
Getting psyched for my trip away; three weeks in The Grampians and Mount Arapiles.
Next week Sunday I'll be there, in the real world, starting to be grounded. 

Lori Milas wrote: Two things on my mind this morning:  

I guess I got spooked last year when I got pretty lost pretty fast (4 separate times!) in Josh, just looking for a route called Illusion Dweller.  it wasn't that far, but in the absence of other hikers, and any sense of navigation, I could have wandered into danger. Every rock changed as the light changed... I didn't have extra water... mild panic set in...

Your getting lost story reminds me of my trip to a place in South Australia named Moonarie. It's in the middle of nowhere, very eirie, very strange. A hard hike to any crags, all blocky, red, smooth and angular, with cracks, the stuff I hate. 

I had several bad climbing moments, almost crying (I'm a climbing sook) but the most eventful momement came when I got completely lost at night near the camp. I was well drunk, and I may or may not have had a joint, and needed to go to the toilet (a dump, as you US peeps would say). Anyway, post dump I had NO dea which way it was back to camp, I was completely bamboozled.
Ended up stumbling about for like two hours, fell over, bashed my face into the ground, gave up and decided to sit by a tree till morning, garnered some resolve and finally made it home, pretty much terrified and broken.
I'm my time in the Australian army travelling around I've come to the firm conclusion that some places are just damn creepy and weird and they will FUCK you up dude! 

Carl Schneider wrote:

Your getting lost story reminds me of my trip to a place in South Australia named Moonarie. It's in the middle of nowhere, very eirie, very strange. A hard hike to any crags, all blocky, red, smooth and angular, with cracks, the stuff I hate. 

I had several bad climbing moments, almost crying (I'm a climbing sook) but the most eventful momement came when I got completely lost at night near the camp. I was well drunk, and I may or may not have had a joint, and needed to go to the toilet (a dump, as you US peeps would say). Anyway, post dump I had NO dea which way it was back to camp, I was completely bamboozled.
Ended up stumbling about for like two hours, fell over, bashed my face into the ground, gave up and decided to sit by a tree till morning, garnered some resolve and finally made it home, pretty much terrified and broken.
I'm my time in the Australian army travelling around I've come to the firm conclusion that some places are just damn creepy and weird and they will FUCK you up dude! 

Carl, you do paint a picture.   Very nice picture... you drunk, crying, broken, stumbling.  You get yourself out of that mess, only to get right back at it again and find more trouble for yourself.  

This reminds me a bit of some of the spots we would find ourselves in in the '60's... only back then I didn't care where we wound up.  Wherever it was it could only be fun.  Things have changed...

There's really an Australian army?  What all do you do?  More of the above story?    

It's been really helpful reading through all these posts.  It's a reminder to do a self-check along the way...

Outside of grades on routes, there's not a lot of objective ways of gauging where we're at.  Dallas... I love your humility.  Wendy, that you just know what you can do... what you no longer can/want to do.  Russ, can climb without food or water.    Carl, apparently, climbs drunk and disoriented.

I hate giving any quarter to age or limitations.  So far... I just feel strong and incredibly able.  But... a few hours without water, or even one meal skipped, could be a medical emergency for me.  So, I have to pay attention to that, and not gallop ahead.  It's just the way it is.  I'm working on the right fanny/backpack to even take up on climbs or short hikes to crags.  I got a bladder last year which worked fine up hiking in Truckee in the heat.  In Josh Bob seems to have solutions for heat (all the natives do)... spray bottles, ice chests, plenty of water and electrolytes.  And an intimate knowledge of shade. 
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Business and a personal retreat takes me right back to So. Cal. in a few weeks...   Soooo.... I'll be fitting in another week of climbing, this time, hopefully really focused daily work with leading.  Maybe this isn't a problem for anyone else, but I can't just hit this every 3 months and have it be useful.  Another time or two in Josh before June... and then a summer of climbing in Truckee... I HOPE ropes, anchors, pro placement becomes as natural for me as it is for everyone else here.  Something magical happened on my last visit... in part, the transition to just climbing.  

No reason to post this here, except it's part of what's unfolding: we have a beautiful lake nearby that is more than full.  I've always dreamed of rowing.  Just set off as the sun rises and see what's out there... (with a friend).      Anyone here row?

Lori, I don't think a fanny pack is a good climbing solution, since it interferes with the rear harness gear loops as well as competing with your chalk bag for posterior real estate.   There are various small climbing packs that are designed to ride a bit high to provide clearance for all the stuff carried behind and I think one of those is a better bet.

Lori, this is a good smallish pack that rides high and stays out of your way. I own one that you're welcome to borrow and try. Also, some of the little camelback packs ride high and are good for just a liter or two of water and some food.

I carry a small cheap bag on multi-pitch. Just enough for 2 .75ltr water bottles, 2 pairs of shoes, and Barbara's Lunch. She must eat every 4 hours or she gets ill.  

I have a little inflatable pontoon fishing boat like this one.  I had to rework the horrible oar locks, but it does provide some good exercise and will keep you out of the chilly water. It also packs up very small. 

rgold wrote: Lori, I don't think a fanny pack is a good climbing solution, since it interferes with the rear harness gear loops as well as competing with your chalk bag for posterior real estate.   There are various small climbing packs that are designed to ride a bit high to provide clearance for all the stuff carried behind and I think one of those is a better bet.

Thanks, rgold.  I've relied upon your wisdom a lot over the last year.  Was going to go hunting today for some items that might work... including more pockets.  Some critical things can always go there.

Meanwhile there's this.     BTW... does anyone really believe that olive oil can extract you from a stuck foot/hand or body jam?  Perhaps that's just an old wives tale.  Frankly, this being up about 100 feet... how in HELL would you get pried out, if indeed you couldn't wiggle out?    

I have a Gerber hydration pack I use for everything. It has a 3L bladder. On a summer day (50 miles of trail) I'll drink the whole thing.

On the bike it carries cell phone, wallet, keys and some tools. Spare plug and mustard packets.

Same for climbing, fishing canoeing, hiking etc. Sans tools add snacks or lunch as appropriate.

Russ lives in Hell adjacent so he is used to living with very little water.

Lori Milas wrote:

Meanwhile there's this.     BTW... does anyone really believe that olive oil can extract you from a stuck foot/hand or body jam?  Perhaps that's just an old wives tale.  Frankly, this being up about 100 feet... how in HELL would you get pried out, if indeed you couldn't wiggle out?    

I once got my knee jammed in a crack with a reputation for stuck knees, including a rescue using motor oil. (See MP description of Whitney Gilman Ridge.) I extracted my knee by thinking of it as a well-placed nut and lifting it up and out.

Lori Milas wrote:

Meanwhile there's this.     BTW... does anyone really believe that olive oil can extract you from a stuck foot/hand or body jam?  Perhaps that's just an old wives tale.  Frankly, this being up about 100 feet... how in HELL would you get pried out, if indeed you couldn't wiggle out?    

Olive oil is just a lubricant, and really any lubricant could work for such a situation. Most people don't carry olive oil with them up climbs, though. Water is much more likely.

In every case I've seen where someone has gotten stuck, they've just kept working at it and gotten out sans-lube. My favorite example is this one. :D

Señor Arroz wrote: Lori, this is a good smallish pack that rides high and stays out of your way. I own one that you're welcome to borrow and try. Also, some of the little camelback packs ride high and are good for just a liter or two of water and some food.

I own one as well, and like it, but the drawstring top closure won't keep out rain---I found this out the hard way.  If I'm going to use it when the weather isn't very stable, I use a super light dry bag or two for items that would be compromised by moisture---or use another pack that is more waterproof.

For anything longer than 6 pitches I like to have some food and water, if at altitude (RMNP etc) I take food/water no matter what, usually those have long approaches as well, so energy is an issue. If there is a walk off, I carry a pair of minimalist running shoes that fold up tiny in a stuffsack that also holds a lightweight shell, a bar, and a foldable water bottle. That clips to my harness and I don’t mind leading with it. I have climbed with a small bullet pack - the follower carries it - but there have been a few climbs at harder grades that the pack was a real detriment to getting up stuff, especially steep roofs, even following.