Fun little incident in the Gunks

God Bless the Gunks!

eli poss wrote:

How is this possible? Do people not think about how to get down before leaving the ground? My route finding skills are pretty crappy and I can manage to find my way down anything I've gotten on in Red Rocks, which has got to be way more complicated than the gunks. What's going on up there?

Is it it a lack of planning, a lack of information, a lack of familiarity? Usually when I go to an area that's completely new to me I try to go with somebody who has some level of familiarity with the approach, descent, etc. whenever possible. Do other people not do that?

I can't answer the question. Many people are, from my perspective, remarkably incurious about the the terrain surrounding the cliff face itself.  You have to understand that there is a carriage road at the bottom of a long cliff face and lots of trees on top, so knowing any specific way down is not imperative---you can frequently throw a rope around a nearby tree and rap off.  

In a more complex area, you really have to know how to get down, but in the Trapps, "getting down" is not an issue at all, what is an issue is getting down with minimal impact, and that requires the extra effort to locate an established rap station or down-scramble.  Many of these are not at all obvious---the City Lights rappel Seth mentioned is a good example.   The party either has to believe in the value of minimal destruction or else at least have a sense that more destructive practices might eventually provoke a Preserve reaction that puts limitations on climbing.

I think the Gunks at its busiest can take on a gym-like atmosphere, although it seldom gets as bad as your average sport crag, as I've personally observed at the Red, Rumney, or Red Rocks NV. Trad climbing presents certain barriers to entry that make it so that once you get above a fairly introductory grade level, things are less zoo-like except at a select few popular locations, most of the time.

I think in general the climbers I meet at the Gunks are wonderful people who really care about others and just need to be educated about best practices. The real problem is the overuse of the resource. There are too many of us and any solution imposed will be unwelcome to many people. 

rgold wrote:

I can't answer the question. Many people are, from my perspective, remarkably incurious about the the terrain surrounding the cliff face itself.  You have to understand that there is a carriage road at the bottom of a long cliff face and lots of trees on top, so knowing any specific way down is not imperative---you can frequently throw a rope around a nearby tree and rap off.  

In a more complex area, you really have to know how to get down, but in the Trapps, "getting down" is not an issue at all, what is an issue is getting down with minimal impact, and that requires the extra effort to locate an established rap station or down-scramble.  Many of these are not at all obvious---the City Lights rappel Seth mentioned is a good example.   The party either has to believe in the value of minimal destruction or else at least have a sense that more destructive practices might eventually provoke a Preserve reaction that puts limitations on climbing.

huh, that's a real shame. The thought of going up a multipitch route without any idea of how to get down seems pretty odd to me, but perhaps less so if the cliff is short and sprinkled with trees. It may not work for y'all but here's an idea: Having a summit register kind of thing at the top of routes and inside it have instructions for getting to one or more established rap stations or walk offs.

That way, if people are too dumb to find that information before starting up the climb, they can at least have access to it before they start to descend.

The thought of starting up a multi pitch without any idea of how to....... seems odd? For realz?

Great! guess I'm an old crusty traddie. Thanks Eli! think i'll have a cry in the shower now.

eli poss wrote:

huh, that's a real shame. The thought of going up a multipitch route without any idea of how to get down seems pretty odd to me, but perhaps less so if the cliff is short and sprinkled with trees. It may not work for y'all but here's an idea: Having a summit register kind of thing at the top of routes and inside it have instructions for getting to one or more established rap stations or walk offs.

That way, if people are too dumb to find that information before starting up the climb, they can at least have access to it before they start to descend.

It would take a lot of summit registers.   The Gunks is a multi-mile ridge with routes every few feet.

Here's a crazy idea: what if the kiosk had a sign advertising a free version of the Gunks App that only had descent beta?

The first time I went to the Gunks, there were no guidebooks anywhere on the East Coast to be had, rgold will recall this era. I copied info from a friends guide onto a 3x5, and my partner John Geiger and I found Red Pillar successfully, climbed it, found the trail off, and descended through the Uberfall. I'd been climbing about four months, It's not rocket science. Back then lots of people rappelled from trees, and they did not always have slings around them. At least 90% of those trees are still there.
I'm a person that absolutely believes the road to hell is ( hopefully ) paved with do-gooders. What do you think is the worst that would have happened if the OP had said nothing, you know, minded his own business?

Tom Stryker wrote: The first time I went to the Gunks, there were no guidebooks anywhere on the East Coast to be had, rgold will recall this era. I copied info from a friends guide onto a 3x5, and my partner John Geiger and I found Red Pillar successfully, climbed it, found the trail off, and descended through the Uberfall. I'd been climbing about four months, It's not rocket science. Back then lots of people rappelled from trees, and they did not always have slings around them. At least 90% of those trees are still there.
I'm a person that absolutely believes the road to hell is ( hopefully ) paved with do-gooders. What do you think is the worst that would have happened if the OP had said nothing, you know, minded his own business?

Your position is myopic IMO - I climbed BITD too, at least to some extent, and the sport has exploded since then, which has in turn saddled us with risks to access and sometimes real danger of destruction of our finite resources.  These two things are intrinsically linked.  

Thanks.  Do my myopic self a favor, and answer the question I posed. Do you think I don't know the sport has exploded? I climbed a lot BITD. 

Yeah sorry JSH I know you are a highly respected individual there. I think the bolts are a disaster that have led to endless toproping and people camping on stuff for half a day.

Same question then, what do you think is the worst that could have happened if the OP had said nothing ? Would you kindly answer that for me please?

And to answer yours, I'm inclined to say nothing, unless some sort of friendly interchange occurs first. It's one guy making one poor decision about one rappel that is not life threatening.

Typical day out at the Uberfall!

Where are the dogs?

Holly Cr@p, that’s a ton of people!

And dead trees...

( sorry my brother gave me some really good moonshine...I'll behave now )

adam gong wrote: Typical day out at the Uberfall!

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

You poor bastids!

:P

Julian H wrote: People take take the fun about of everything. Do people still rapel of that big tree coming out of the top of high exposure? That was fun hugg the tree swing around. 150 ft of nothing but air 

That was the tree at the top of Madame G's. The tree is still there, but the anchor for that rap is now a pair of bolts safely away from the edge.

adam gong wrote: Typical day out at the Uberfall!

Holly hell!

Gunkiemike wrote:

That was the tree at the top of Madame G's. The tree is still there, but the anchor for that rap is now a pair of bolts safely away from the edge.

I've heard that starting that rap was a rite of passage at the Gunks. I've only ever done it from the bolts.

Fehim Hasecic wrote:

Holly hell!

Since the posting of that pic, MP users have been removing their personal non-NY locations at astounding rates. ;)

adam gong wrote: Typical day out at the Uberfall!

Jesus christ that's a fucking zoo. I don't see why anybody would wait in line like that and deal with the clusterfuck of people. Looks like it's time to walk another quarter mile to get to something that isn't crowded.