Looking for help breaking some climbing gear

Jared Chrysostom wrote: Where this idea stops making sense is putting the device in a vise and cranking on it with a carabiner. 

No, it's putting the carabiner in a vice and cranking on the device. No way in hell I'd lead rope solo on the Revo without that test. I want to know which goes first, the biner or the Revo attachment points. It's a pretty good guess which is going to blow first.

I drew up a quick hand sketch to illustrate why that test is pointless. In the harness/carabiner/Revo/rope system, there is only one point at which the components are not free to rotate relative to each other - the carabiner-Revo connection. If you somehow load the Revo with a rotational force, the Revo and carabiner are free to rotate at the belay loop. If you somehow load the carabiner with a rotational force, the carabiner and Revo are free to rotate at the rope.

This is a bad attempt at making a free-body diagram look like climbing gear; I am an engineer, not an artist. If you want a real FBD... the point is, don’t waste a Revo on a pointless test. Send it to me instead. 

Healyje wrote:It's a pretty good guess which is going to blow first.

Your belay loop, or your rope, or you?

Spoiler: I am not a engineer, also never used a Revo. 

The degrees of freedom provided by the belay loop/rope should prevent the attachment from getting ‘torqued’ off. 

The issue I see is the binding on a biner, where the two seperate attachment points could ‘lever’ each other off leaving you attached to only one of the side plates of the device. 
If you are able to torque them off by hand I would assume they aren’t strong enough to handle the leverage from the bound biner. 

PatMas wrote: Spoiler: I am not a engineer, also never used a Revo. 

The degrees of freedom provided by the belay loop/rope should prevent the attachment from getting ‘torqued’ off. 

The issue I see is the binding on a biner, where the two seperate attachment points could ‘lever’ each other off leaving you attached to only one of the side plates of the device. 
If you are able to torque them off by hand I would assume they aren’t strong enough to handle the leverage from the bound biner. 

I can’t picture how this would happen. Sketch maybe?

To each his own. Call me Edisonian, but I've seen enough strange shit climbing and rope soloing in forty-five years that I'm not really into climbing with any form of a weak link in my system. So far the Revo has the weak attachment points, funky release mechanism, dubious integrity of the orientation and alignment of the two shell halves, you can't let any significant amount of weight on the slack side of the rope, you have to use backup knots with it, and it's not the best device for rappelling. All wrapped up it's a tease as I had high hopes for it as it handles a broader range of rope diameters than the Eddy, but even on cursory analysis the Revo just doesn't stack up well against it even without the vice test. Better than an SP for sure, but the Eddy is going to remain the best lead rope solo device for the time being which is a bit of a disappointment.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116550456/taz-lov2-rope-access-device-rope-solo

:)

MH

Meanwhile out on the rock:

I’m still out doing moderate trad onsight rope solos with the Revo. I’ve done a few more catch tests and am confident enough in the device to start climbing without backup knots. I’ve figured out an easy trick using an extra carabiner to make lowering and cleaning super smooth after I fix the rope.  For routes less than half the rope length, backfeeding isn’t an issue. Compared to gri-gri style setups that I’ve tried and the clove hitch method, so far I like the Revo the best, but I still prefer a real belayer. My only concern remains some kind of unforeseen catastrophic failure, which is what I would like to see tested. 

Hell yeah Caveman! Just got mine in the mail today. You gotta give us the skinny on the biner trick. Ready to get some tested. I dont want this thread to end like the others with no real conclusion and just speculation on how it will hold up.

If we get 2 device, we can do 2 series of tests or if we get one, test it to death and do the torque/attachment point test.

• Jim, anything I can do to help with devising a plan for testing as far as resetting goes. I know you dont have one to look at but I dont mind taking some good photos or making a video of its action. So far just playing with it, to unlock you just pull the brake strand and it detentions the stopping mechanism.

Justice Holloway wrote: Hell yeah Caveman! Just got mine in the mail today. You gotta give us the skinny on the biner trick. Ready to get some tested. I dont want this thread to end like the others with no real conclusion and just speculation on how it will hold up.

If we get 2 device, we can do 2 series of tests or if we get one, test it to death and do the torque/attachment point test.

• Jim, anything I can do to help with devising a plan for testing as far as resetting goes. I know you dont have one to look at but I dont mind taking some good photos or making a video of its action. So far just playing with it, to unlock you just pull the brake strand and it detentions the stopping mechanism.

Well I know how it functions, it´s the practicalities of unlocking it and pulling the rope back through under load or as I lift the weight again.

I´m waiting to hear someone has collected the money together, sent it to me or my US importer (or wherever) then I´ll order one or two and get to work.

Imported there is 19% sales tax added plus the fee for collecting it which is maybe €10, the sales tax I can reclaim through my business but the fee I can´t. However I can buy one here for €114.00 ($128.78) shipping free and reclaim the sales tax so the end price is $108.22.

It sounds like the price you can get purchasing it there is the best option. Anyone find it cheaper than $108.22?
What is the best way for us to send you money? Venmo, PayPal, etc.? If you want to provide us your payment account info we could send you the $.

You can do tower drop tests all day long and into the next and it really it's going to tell you next to squat about its utility in lead rope soloing (the Eddy version)

Aaron Formella wrote:It sounds like the price you can get purchasing it there is the best option. Anyone find it cheaper than $108.22?
What is the best way for us to send you money? Venmo, PayPal, etc.? If you want to provide us your payment account info we could send you the $.

Every payment into my Paypal account goes through my business and has to be reconciled for my tax accounts, one payment I can cope with but not dozens! Also there´s the hassle if there is an over or undershoot when I have to worry about making reverse payments or whatever.

I don't mind collecting funds if everyone is comfortable with that. If we have $155 from everyone, I'll cover the rest for the 2nd. 
My paypal email is. Edit removed

Justice Holloway wrote: I don't mind collecting funds if everyone is comfortable with that. If we have $155 from everyone, I'll cover the rest for the 2nd. 
My paypal email is justice.93@live dot com

Sent you a $10. 

Got it! I'll make an update after work tracking where we are.

$20 sent

Went down and took another look at the Revo, it didn't change my opinion of the attachment points and on closer inspection, I found the entire apparatus rather flimsy. The rivets/axles are only minimally adequate, the locking/unlocking ears easily bendable and their spring placement somewhat unfortunate.

Here's a pic of one bent after being hit with a backup knot in a fall.

Less than ideal overall...

Healyje wrote: Went down and took another look at the Revo, it didn't change my opinion of the attachment points and on closer inspection, I found the entire apparatus rather flimsy. The rivets/axles are only minimally adequate, the locking/unlocking ears easily bendable and their spring placement somewhat unfortunate.

Here's a pic of one bent after being hit with a backup knot in a fall.

Less than ideal overall...

That's not your hand, that's a girl's hand.

So far I have
$30 - me
$10 from Jared
$20 from caveman
And I believe 40 from M.hanna on the way.

The bent revo from the backup knot doesn't very confidence inspiring. If people are still intersted we can keep going or I can send refunds. Maybe a vote?
I'm down for whatever