Rope Diameter vs UIAA Falls

Hello Everyone,
Im looking to buy a rope for myself and I'm limited to buying ropes through REI with a gift card. On the website the Maxim Alex Honnold Glider 9.9 has 5 UIAA falls rated but is thicker in diameter than this Edelrid DuoTec 9.6, which has a rating of 9 UIAA falls. To my understanding the thickness of the rope correlates to its durability as well as how many falls it has rated. Regarding the diameter and fall rating, these two ropes are almost opposites. Which rope is going to be more durable? I would like to keep this rope as long as possible and and use for a wide range of activities. Cheers.

Sheath percentage plays a larger role in rope longevity than UIAA falls. UIAA falls is a "rating" (and an odd one at that) of the core.

PatMas wrote: Sheath percentage plays a larger role in rope longevity than UIAA falls. UIAA falls is a "rating" (and an odd one at that) of the core.

Ok thank you. I don’t know much about sheath percentage and what is more beneficial. The Edelrid rope was the only one that seemed to have that information. 

Core proportion [%]: 60,00

Sheath proportion [%]: 40,00

Oliver Nasiell wrote: [...]I would like to keep this rope as long as possible and and use for a wide range of activities. Cheers.

That's the crux of the matter. If you plan to do a lot of slingshot toproping, get more sheath and an overall fatter rope. If you plan to do long alpine routes, go skinnier. If you plan to redpoint hard stuff, keep it as light as possible (but don't expect it to last very many seasons...)

Thicker is typically better assuming equal proportions of sheath %.  Don't worry about UIA falls that rating is meaningless to most climbers.  

If you're toproping get a thick durable rope.  Searching the forums for "durable rope" etc. will turn up good results.  

If it's your first rope go cheap.  Expensive ropes do not necessary equal better durability

Gregger Man wrote:

That's the crux of the matter. If you plan to do a lot of slingshot toproping, get more sheath and an overall fatter rope. If you plan to do long alpine routes, go skinnier. If you plan to redpoint hard stuff, keep it as light as possible (but don't expect it to last very many seasons...)

I’m leaning towards trying to rappel off of routes as much as possible and avoid toprope lowering. But if durability mean’s more weight then I would rather become a stronger climber to accommodate for the weight rather than rely on the weigh loss of a lighter rope in order to redpoint harder routes. 

There are a lot of factors at play when you talk about different types of ropes.

1. What is its primary utilization going to be? Top-Rope, Sport Climbing(Lead), Rappelling..etc.. 2. I think it's best to try and target a rope based off of the things you want to do with it. 3. How much use are you going to get out of it? Are you a weekend warrior? Are you going to use it in the gym and outside or just outside only?

For example, I have an Edelweiss 9.8 60m rope. I primarily use this rope for leading indoors and outdoors, and some occasions for a Top-Rope outside. In my opinion this is a "middle of the road" type rope, its thick enough to handle some Top-Rope routes and light enough for me to handle the majority of sport routes I encounter. It's not dry treated, so I make sure it doesn't get wet.

To maintain the life of the rope, I make sure to inspect it after I take outside because the inevitable of it running over rocks will "weather" the rope, it's just a fact. The rope is only durable if you take care of it, i.e.- keeping it in a rope bag, resting the rope after big falls, cleaning the rope after a couples days of outside climbing use(dirt and aluminum build up within the fibers of the rope).

I would say that BOTH UIAA ratings and thickness of the rope are important for determining what you should buy, but keep in mind other factors too and you will have a rope that can meet all your needs.

Another good idea is to read read read, you can never go wrong with researching, googling or Youtube(ing) companies or equipment providers who provide info on ropes and their uses. Even research what UIAA means and how they determine those fall ratings!

Best of luck! 

greggrylls wrote: Thicker is typically better assuming equal proportions of sheath %.  Don't worry about UIA falls that rating is meaningless to most climbers.  

If you're toproping get a thick durable rope.  Searching the forums for "durable rope" etc. will turn up good results.  

If it's your first rope go cheap.  Expensive ropes do not necessary equal better durability

I’m planning to mostly lead and rappel off routes. This will be my first climbing rope that I have bought but having lived on a sailboat for a couple of years and crossing the Atlantic, it will not be the first rope I have bought. That being said I’ve always kept a close eye on the environments my ropes have been used in and on top of that I have a gift card for this purchase so I would like to get a rope with more features if possible. 

Oliver Nasiell wrote: Hello Everyone,
Im looking to buy a rope for myself and I'm limited to buying ropes through REI with a gift card. On the website the Maxim Alex Honnold Glider 9.9 has 5 UIAA falls rated but is thicker in diameter than this Edelrid DuoTec 9.6, which has a rating of 9 UIAA falls. To my understanding the thickness of the rope correlates to its durability as well as how many falls it has rated. Regarding the diameter and fall rating, these two ropes are almost opposites. Which rope is going to be more durable? I would like to keep this rope as long as possible and and use for a wide range of activities. Cheers.

Yeah that isn't true.  Beefy hard wearing rope has a thicker sheath percentage. UIAA falls is not something you will ever experience and is kind of a bunk number.  The number I pay most attention to is Impact force, the force the fall will inflict on your body.  

1) Impact force
2) sheath percent if available
3) Weight per meter
4) the diameter is a squishy number....I have a Black Diamond 9.4mm that is MUCH thicker than my Mammut 9.8

Buck Rio wrote:

Yeah that isn't true.  Beefy hard wearing rope has a thicker sheath percentage. UIAA falls is not something you will ever experience and is kind of a bunk number.  The number I pay most attention to is Impact force, the force the fall will inflict on your body.  

1) Impact force
2) sheath percent if available
3) Weight per meter
4) the diameter is a squishy number....I have a Black Diamond 9.4mm that is MUCH thicker than my Mammut 9.8

Ok the impact force is half a kilonewton less on the Edelrid rope than the Maxim rope. I understand that is for a softer catch. As for the UIAA falls I realize that I will never experience fall factor of 1.77 but it makes sense to me that if a rope can take more of those high factor falls than another rope then it sounds like it is more durable in the long run and can take more of a beating. Is that true?

Aaron Clifton wrote: There are a lot of factors at play when you talk about different types of ropes.

1. What is its primary utilization going to be? Top-Rope, Sport Climbing(Lead), Rappelling..etc.. 2. I think it's best to try and target a rope based off of the things you want to do with it. 3. How much use are you going to get out of it? Are you a weekend warrior? Are you going to use it in the gym and outside or just outside only?

For example, I have an Edelweiss 9.8 60m rope. I primarily use this rope for leading indoors and outdoors, and some occasions for a Top-Rope outside. In my opinion this is a "middle of the road" type rope, its thick enough to handle some Top-Rope routes and light enough for me to handle the majority of sport routes I encounter. It's not dry treated, so I make sure it doesn't get wet.

To maintain the life of the rope, I make sure to inspect it after I take outside because the inevitable of it running over rocks will "weather" the rope, it's just a fact. The rope is only durable if you take care of it, i.e.- keeping it in a rope bag, resting the rope after big falls, cleaning the rope after a couples days of outside climbing use(dirt and aluminum build up within the fibers of the rope).

I would say that BOTH UIAA ratings and thickness of the rope are important for determining what you should buy, but keep in mind other factors too and you will have a rope that can meet all your needs.

Another good idea is to read read read, you can never go wrong with researching, googling or Youtube(ing) companies or equipment providers who provide info on ropes and their uses. Even research what UIAA means and how they determine those fall ratings!

Best of luck!

Thank you for your detailed response. I plan to mostly sport climb and rappel off routes. I am very soon going to transition to multi pitch sport routes and eventually in the future trad routes. I do plan on using it weekly outdoors and maybe on very rare occasions I would bring it to the gym due to the convenience factor.

I understand that when outdoor climbing the wear from running over rocks is inevitable. I do intend to care for the rope with as many different practices as I can. Both of these rope are dry treated but I will try too clean them every number of outdoor sessions.

As for research I have messaged REI this question and they referred me to the manufacturers . . . I own and have read the Mountianeering Freedom of the Hills book and watched many YouTube videos. And now I am trying this avenue.

Maybe with this information you might be able to give me some more insights as to what rope I should choose?? Thanks so much.

Oliver Nasiell wrote:

Ok the impact force is half a kilonewton less on the Edelrid rope than the Maxim rope. I understand that is for a softer catch. As for the UIAA falls I realize that I will never experience fall factor of 1.77 but it makes sense to me that if a rope can take more of those high factor falls than another rope then it sounds like it is more durable in the long run and can take more of a beating. Is that true?

It sounds like it should be true, but isn't. The UIAA test is a series of extremely brutal falls with hardly any rest in between. A person would never, ever do that, the first fall would probably make you shit your pants. 

Sheath percent is the golden number for longevity. Not every manufacturer provides the number.  I have a rope I bought in 1998 (Sterling Marathon) that is fully serviceable, although I don't climb with it. It is a true workhorse rope, 10.5mm thick with a lot of sheath. I climbed exclusively on that for almost three years before retiring it for a lighter rope(Cousin brand, soft like butter). I know Maxim makes a good beefy rope (Apex?), I haven't really climbed a lot on the Maxim brand.

Get this rope: Great deal on 70M rope It is moderately beefy, is 70 meters long and is dirt cheap($135 for a 70m rope)...I own one, it isn't a great rope, but for the price it can't be beat. When you transition to multipitch trad, you can buy a different rope based on experience instead of comments from strangers.

More falls means your core is going to be more durable, and generally indicates a higher core %. A more durable core means it will be longer before your rope becomes squishy (when you can bend your rope without a twist which indicates the core is damaged) and also means it will retain its elasticity for longer. This usually comes at the cost of less sheath, however, which will make your rope less resistance to abrasion, which is bad for vertical and low angle terrain, but doesn't matter quite as much on steep overhanging terrain. 

If this is your first rope, I would get something with a high sheath % around 9.8mm because you're going to beat the shit out of your rope until you learn how to take better care of it. Especially if you're going to be doing a lot of TRing and/or sport climbing on low angle or vertical terrain.

If you climb a lot of steep sport and you're falling a bunch, you're probably going to get squishy sections before you get a coreshot so I would get a second line that has a higher fall rating and lower impact force (which typically indicates a higher core %) to be used exclusively for steep sport climbing. I know buying a second rope can be hard to swallow financially, but having two ropes for two different purposes will give you a lot more durability, which will save you money in the long run.

eli poss wrote: More falls means your core is going to be more durable, and generally indicates a higher core %. A more durable core means it will be longer before your rope becomes squishy (when you can bend your rope without a twist which indicates the core is damaged) and also means it will retain its elasticity for longer. This usually comes at the cost of less sheath, however, which will make your rope less resistance to abrasion, which is bad for vertical and low angle terrain, but doesn't matter quite as much on steep overhanging terrain.

If this is your first rope, I would get something with a high sheath % around 9.8mm because you're going to beat the shit out of your rope until you learn how to take better care of it. Especially if you're going to be doing a lot of TRing and/or sport climbing on low angle or vertical terrain.

If you climb a lot of steep sport and you're falling a bunch, you're probably going to get squishy sections before you get a coreshot so I would get a second line that has a higher fall rating and lower impact force (which typically indicates a higher core %) to be used exclusively for steep sport climbing. I know buying a second rope can be hard to swallow financially, but having two ropes for two different purposes will give you a lot more durability, which will save you money in the long run.

I agree with everything Eli said....BUT, that BD rope is a screaming good deal, and it is BD's burliest rope.  Anyway, all BD ropes are 25% off at Backcountry. I believe that Black Diamond ropes are made by Roca, don't quote me on that though. You can get a 60M for $120!!! 

For comparison, my last rope cost me $275 (Sterling Fusion Ion R 9.4 Bi-color 70M) and I only use it for serious climbs, not sport climbing or top roping.

meh - he's relegated to REI for the gift card use
there are better deals at epic tv shop for ropes or when campsaver has a sale/coupon combo. You can get a double dry 70m for the price of that BD 70m

but for the OP, we need to recommend REI sales/ropes:
seeing as REI doesn't price match, I don't see any deals currently.
OP, you should wait until the next REI sale, if you can. Best bet is a coupon that works on the outlet pricing...
If you HAVE to buy now, at least this comes with a cool rope bag: https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/130456/edelrid-ceuze-98mm-x-60m-non-dry-rope-and-caddy-light-rope-bag-package 

Matt N wrote: meh - he's relegated to REI for the gift card use
there are better deals at epic tv shop for ropes or when campsaver has a sale/coupon combo. You can get a double dry 70m for the price of that BD 70m

but for the OP, we need to recommend REI sales/ropes:
seeing as REI doesn't price match, I don't see any deals currently.
OP, you should wait until the next REI sale, if you can. Best bet is a coupon that works on the outlet pricing...
If you HAVE to buy now, at least this comes with a cool rope bag: https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/130456/edelrid-ceuze-98mm-x-60m-non-dry-rope-and-caddy-light-rope-bag-package 

Sorry, I didn't read the gift card part...

Oliver Nasiell wrote:

Thank you for your detailed response. I plan to mostly sport climb and rappel off routes. I am very soon going to transition to multi pitch sport routes and eventually in the future trad routes. I do plan on using it weekly outdoors and maybe on very rare occasions I would bring it to the gym due to the convenience factor.

I understand that when outdoor climbing the wear from running over rocks is inevitable. I do intend to care for the rope with as many different practices as I can. Both of these rope are dry treated but I will try too clean them every number of outdoor sessions.

As for research I have messaged REI this question and they referred me to the manufacturers . . . I own and have read the Mountianeering Freedom of the Hills book and watched many YouTube videos. And now I am trying this avenue.

Maybe with this information you might be able to give me some more insights as to what rope I should choose?? Thanks so much.

Good! Due diligence is key to finding the right product for the right price and right application. From what I gather from the other posters and from you, breaking into multi-pitch and trad later on, I think you couldn't go wrong with a 70m rope. 70m will provide you enough length for rappels and enough length for longer pitches with out having to break a pitch into two(depending on where you plan to climb). 

Freedom of the hills is an excellent resource, but I find actually going to an REI, feeling the ropes themselves, having some knowledge(through FOH, REI, MP, online source) is a good way to finding the right rope. If you belong to a gym then I would look for people who look like they climb outside or have knowledge of outdoor stuff and ask them for their opinions and what they buy. 

I also would check out, Outdoorgearlab.com 

The ropes that I have used for those same exact purposes you plan to use them for have been, Petzl 9.8(cannot remember the name), Edelwiss 9.8, Mammut 9.8.

Sterling is my preferred brand, then Edelwiss, Elderid, Mammut, Petzl. Those companies make pretty quality ropes. 

I feel like each time I purchase a rope, I learn more: more about what I want out of my next rope and what to look for.

e.g. - weight vs diameter. I recently purchased a Beal Tiger 10.0mm - it weighs 61g/m, which is less than many 9.8s and even some 9.5-9.6 ropes.
do you really want a "skinny" rope or a lightweight rope?

Buy what's on sale and then you'll have more $ to put towards other items, and save towards your next rope, which you'll then have a better idea of what you want. Its nice to have a lighter 70m for multipitch vs a beefier 60m for cragging, etc

Matt N wrote: I feel like each time I purchase a rope, I learn more: more about what I want out of my next rope and what to look for.

e.g. - weight vs diameter. I recently purchased a Beal Tiger 10.0mm - it weighs 61g/m, which is less than many 9.8s and even some 9.5-9.6 ropes.
do you really want a "skinny" rope or a lightweight rope?

Buy what's on sale and then you'll have more $ to put towards other items, and save towards your next rope, which you'll then have a better idea of what you want. Its nice to have a lighter 70m for multipitch vs a beefier 60m for cragging, etc

the problem is the grams/meter thing is also kinda bogus. there was recently a thread about the triple rated ropes and the beal opera which supposedly weights 48g/m was much closer to 55 or so in real life. they get to measure weight *after* the rope has been stretched a little bit.

overall agree that weight is a better metric than skinniness though, especially when my beal opera (allegedly 8.5) feels more like a 9.2 or so, unless it's stretched out.

I've owned three Maxim Gliders and another Maxim with the same sheath and while I love the handling of the rope they are by far the least durable ropes I have ever owned.  They tout the sheath being more wear resistant but in my experience it is the opposite.  The tightness of the weave of the sheath results in it being more susceptible to damage.  Think about how hard it is to cut a rope in two without any tension in it versus pulling the rope taut to be able to cut it. 

I dunno if REI carries edelrid ropes but if they do I would highly recommend the 9.8mm boa (or the eco boa that is made from shorter yarns that would otherwise be wasted). That was my first rope and she's about to start her 6th year, still going strong, although I no longer use it for trad climbing because it's lost a small amount of its elasticity.