Beal Escaper.. thoughts?

I just tried using this for the first time descending the First Creek Slabs in Vegas.  Those familiar with them will know that they're low angle (read: lots of friction) and are usually 150-200' raps station to station.  As expected, the device performed poorly.  My first attempt was at the first full length rappel.  This station didn't used to exist due to how easy it is to simply down climb.  Long story short, there was so much friction between the rope and the rock over 200' that it was impossible to get the bungie to relax to cyclicly release the escaper.  I tried again two stations down (the next time you need to make a >30m rap)  This time I stopped about 50' above the next station to try and reduce the effect of friction.  In this case I was able to get the thing to release (but it took far more than the advertised 8 loading/unloading cycles) and it promptly hung up in a crack 5' below the anchor.  I was optimistic about the final rap as it's steeper, but ultimately 200' of rope and an edge just below the anchor was enough to make it seemingly irretrievable after 5 minutes of bouncing up and down on the ground.  After rope soloing back up to it I discovered that it had moved a couple of inches, but it probably would've taken another 20 minutes to get it to actually release.

I'd still like to test it on a properly vertical long rap with minimal rope/rock contact, but am honestly not optimistic.  I think the amount of stretch over 200' (granted I was using an 8.9...) is enough to make it very difficult to relax the bungie enough to affect release.  One thing I learned is that I'm much more inclined to keep bouncing if I can see the anchor and watch the tail get slightly shorter with each bounce.  In the end I think this is still a cool tool with interesting applications, but I think they're pretty specific and don't see this being the magic bullet I'd hoped based on the hype.  As far as I can tell, the optimal scenario for using it seems to be short, steep raps on which you'd probably only carry a single rope anyway.  (though I guess you can hypothetically now get away with a 30 as opposed to a 60...)

Y G D

Sooo.... This over complicad commercial contrivance of a "fiddle stick" cost how much??? Any body wanting to buy this is retarded, a stick and some string is WAY cheaper, plus ya ain't gotta worry about it coming undone unless you yard on the string.......

It is hard to decide which is worse, the incorrectly-rigged Escaper or the worthless rappel backup.  As mattm and eli posse observe, this video is a case study in incompetence.

Avalon'cha wrote: Sooo.... This over complicad commercial contrivance of a "fiddle stick" cost how much??? Any body wanting to buy this is retarded, a stick and some string is WAY cheaper, plus ya ain't gotta worry about it coming undone unless you yard on the string.......

I haven't used a fiddlestick before, but I take issue with calling every user of the escaper retarded.

With a fiddlestick you have two strands coming down from the top, the pull cord and the main line. If I'm going to have a pull cord anyway I'd much prefer the nice and secure carabiner block.

Now maybe I can get away with a much thinner cord with the fiddlestick, however I don't want 60m of string, it'll end up in a tangle and isn't as useful as, say, 6mm which I'm happy hanging on in unexpected circumstances.

Perhaps you'll say the fiddlestick is faster...It is indeed far quicker to have the fiddlestick release the main line than to have to pull it through the anchors. At which point I might say but look at the beal escaper, it's even faster! No bundle of string to manage and untangle.

eli poss wrote: The prusik he puts on there is completely useless. It has way too much slack and will contact the belay device either jamming it up or disengaging and plummeting 

The British climbing community seems to have this peculiarly disproportionate distrust and fear of abseiling. But with a backup like that, his fear was well placed!

r m wrote:
I haven't used a fiddlestick before, but I take issue with calling every user of the escaper retarded.

With a fiddlestick you have two strands coming down from the top, the pull cord and the main line. If I'm going to have a pull cord anyway I'd much prefer the nice and secure carabiner block.

Now maybe I can get away with a much thinner cord with the fiddlestick, however I don't want 60m of string, it'll end up in a tangle and isn't as useful as, say, 6mm which I'm happy hanging on in unexpected circumstances.

Perhaps you'll say the fiddlestick is faster...It is indeed far quicker to have the fiddlestick release the main line than to have to pull it through the anchors. At which point I might say but look at the beal escaper, it's even faster! No bundle of string to manage and untangle.

Don't take it personally, I call a lot of people retarded. I think it's pent up anger from my ex-wife. For some reason I was under the impression this thing required a pull cord, idk why, probably because was half lit when I watched the video, double vision an all that shit! Upon further review how ever, my retarded ass would gladly hop on one. I'm at my local gear shop now to piece on together on my own, if they'll hurry up and open the doors. I think they're burning one down the backroom & don't realize what time it is.

Max Tepfer wrote: I just tried using this for the first time descending the First Creek Slabs in Vegas.  Those familiar with them will know that they're low angle (read: lots of friction) and are usually 150-200' raps station to station.  As expected, the device performed poorly.  My first attempt was at the first full length rappel.  This station didn't used to exist due to how easy it is to simply down climb.  Long story short, there was so much friction between the rope and the rock over 200' that it was impossible to get the bungie to relax to cyclicly release the escaper.  I tried again two stations down (the next time you need to make a >30m rap)  This time I stopped about 50' above the next station to try and reduce the effect of friction.  In this case I was able to get the thing to release (but it took far more than the advertised 8 loading/unloading cycles) and it promptly hung up in a crack 5' below the anchor.  I was optimistic about the final rap as it's steeper, but ultimately 200' of rope and an edge just below the anchor was enough to make it seemingly irretrievable after 5 minutes of bouncing up and down on the ground.  After rope soloing back up to it I discovered that it had moved a couple of inches, but it probably would've taken another 20 minutes to get it to actually release.

I'd still like to test it on a properly vertical long rap with minimal rope/rock contact, but am honestly not optimistic.  I think the amount of stretch over 200' (granted I was using an 8.9...) is enough to make it very difficult to relax the bungie enough to affect release.  One thing I learned is that I'm much more inclined to keep bouncing if I can see the anchor and watch the tail get slightly shorter with each bounce.  In the end I think this is still a cool tool with interesting applications, but I think they're pretty specific and don't see this being the magic bullet I'd hoped based on the hype.  As far as I can tell, the optimal scenario for using it seems to be short, steep raps on which you'd probably only carry a single rope anyway.  (though I guess you can hypothetically now get away with a 30 as opposed to a 60...)

Thanks for that as it highlights very well the short-comings of this device.

Anyone with experience doing multiple rappels on the descent of a route would never, ever, trust this device due to potential friction issues (compounded by 200' rap stations). It is VERY common for their to be friction issues for a variety of reasons on even steeper rappels with enough rope getting stuck issues as it is (flakes, trees, kit jamming etc.).

If some pointy headed engineer came up with a solution that greatly improved the ease of pulling double ropes to prevent them from fouling this in fact might have great utility for a number of people that find the presence of double ropes reassuring (ie the Alpine) and be welcome.

That negative rant said, for rappels of **known low friction quantity** where the weight savings are useful to the party and the penalty of a jammed rope are minimal (ie like one rope to the ground vs. 7 pitches up) this may be a useful device for some, albeit specialized.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Thanks for that as it highlights very well the short-comings of this device.

Anyone with experience doing multiple rappels on the descent of a route would never, ever, trust this device due to potential friction issues (compounded by 200' rap stations). It is VERY common for their to be friction issues for a variety of reasons on even steeper rappels with enough rope getting stuck issues as it is (flakes, trees, kit jamming etc.).

If some pointy headed engineer came up with a solution that greatly improved the ease of pulling double ropes to prevent them from fouling this in fact might have great utility for a number of people that find the presence of double ropes reassuring (ie the Alpine) and be welcome.

That negative rant said, for rappels of **known low friction quantity** where the weight savings are useful to the party and the penalty of a jammed rope are minimal (ie like one rope to the ground vs. 7 pitches up) this may be a useful device for some, albeit specialized.

Thats what I said, only really good for A 2-3 pitch, one long rope back - to safe flat ground, a cragging' tool looking for a need. Trix that might get you killed if you have to deploy this under a strees full situation. Always, If you can, simplify your roll. . . . K I S S ( Keep it Simple Stupid, or The way I like it Keep it Stupid Simple!

I bought 2 of them from a European Shop; one is for me, and the other I am selling so someone else can get one (they aren't easy to find in the US, and I was already paying for international shipping so I didn't mind.)  I haven't actually used it, but I have played around with it and tested it out.  I think it is an excellent device, but only for certain situations.  It is very light and compact, so you won't even notice that you are carrying it.  I don't recommend it if you have poor attention to detail or if you catch yourself getting complacent often.  Your life depends on setting it up flawlessly; I am going to practice setting it up a ton of times before I even consider putting it to use.  It isn't a necessity, but I think it is totally worth the price.  I am only asking for $60, which is what I paid for it.  I posted it for sale in the FS forum, but if you are interested just PM me.  

rgold wrote:

 but they don't go on to say what a party needing a full-length rappel and equipped with only one rope is supposed to do if the test has a negative result.

Adjust the anchor (i.e., extending it) if necessary to reduce the friction I guess.
I think it's a nice tool, especially for soloists.

How would this work with a naked A-thread/V-thread in ice? wondering if its possible to thread the cord on the escaper itself, probably not long enough?.  would it be necessary to leave cord?

Looking from above, there seems to be a ton of loss on the rope strech alone. Recorded this a month or two ago:
https://youtu.be/Q4YmGQHV3xw 

(started after he already did like 1/3 of the pulling).  Adding that angle in the system or use that methode where you loose half the pulling force seems like a bad idea, but have not tried it.

So for me,  having it get stuck is the main concern.  Which is also my concern for using a  binder block and a thin pull cord. Both seem to have a pretty high snagging potential.  ... but maybe you would  be a little less fucked with the pull cord. ? On the other hand, the escaper is way lighter and more compact.... 

Febs wrote:

I think it's a nice tool, especially for soloists.

THIS!!!!!!  Might be it's best everyday use.

Updating this thread for those that are interested. I’ve been using mine here and there for specific applications and I’m a big fan so far. The best application I’ve used it for is routes that you can do *most* of the rappels with a single 60m or 70m rope, but there is one or two raps that are longer, meaning you’d normally bring a second rope or a tagline. In this case the Escaper is great because you can just use it once or twice and save an extra rope. Works great for routes like this that tend to have a separate rappel route, as the rap routes tend to be pretty straightforward and steep/less featured, meaning minimal chance of it getting stuck. Also because you have to kind of bungee pull the rope, it tends to “shoot” out from the wall a bit, helping it avoid cracks etc.

A couple examples of how I’ve used it so far:

Sunspot Dihedral on the Incredible Hulk, was able to make a 40m rappel to the ground with the escaper and my 70m rope

Cloud Tower in Red Rocks, was able to rap all the way to the juniper tree below the ledge from the top of the last pitch in one rap with the escaper and my 70m, saving a rappel. I opted not to use it Lowe down to avoid getting the rope stuck.

Tl;dr: In my opinion it’s a GREAT tool that weighs close to nothing and provides another option in case the scenario calls for it, or is worthwhile in planned situations (as described above).  Worth having in my opinion. 

The plot thickens: Went back and re-watched the epicTV video and noticed another weird quirk (feels like I am ruining the magic of editing here) but it seems like we are seeing two different rappels videos stitched together or he changed his prussik mid-route. Look at 4:23 and he's got a cord and at 6:01 or so and it's a dyneema sling. Funny business... 

Matt Westlake wrote: The plot thickens: Went back and re-watched the epicTV video and noticed another weird quirk (feels like I am ruining the magic of editing here) but it seems like we are seeing two different rappels videos stitched together or he changed his prussik mid-route. Look at 4:23 and he's got a cord and at 6:01 or so and it's a dyneema sling. Funny business... 

So, are you saying a videographer/film maker did more than one take and stitched together the best cuts?  NO WAY!!  Maybe he dies in the first take.  Then comes back to life for the second take.  Definitely sketch.

Yes, it's obviously a conspiracy. One more link in the chain. Or maybe I found it mildly amusing given the other issues with the video. Totally your call. 

Just wanted to add a data point from a field test involving ascending back up I did with this the other day. I was at a sport crag on a 80' route that was vertical to slightly less than vertical at the top and (with a separate unweighted top rope backup the entire time):
1. set it up like intended through one rap ring and rappelled to the ground.
2. attached my jumars with aiders to the line and ascended the rope held by the escaper back to the anchor.
The escaper had slipped about 2 inches (of about roughly 20 inches it needs to go to release). I'm quite confident that this small slippage happened entirely when I got off the initial rappel and also when I was getting my ascending set up tight and that the escaper did not slip at all the whole time I was off the ground and ascending.
Then while just below the anchor where I could see the escaper well I bounced very hard up and down and it still didn't slip. When I bounced as hard as I could and was basically jumping up each time it slipped slightly.
3. At this point the escaper had slipped maybe a total of 3 inches and the black marker in the rope that is part of the escaper was just inside the double helix of the escaper at the second stich from the bottom.
With out resetting the device I switched to rappel and went down. On the ground I detached like normal and it took 12 weighting and full unreleasing cycles for the entire thing to drop to the ground.

I think this thing is super solid when used correctly and has potential to be really useful in certain situations where carrying a second rope or tag line would be really not ideal and whee the rappels are vertical and snag free. Obviously definitely not something beginners or even intermediately experienced people should be messing with though!

One of the thoughts that inspired me to do this test was thinking about a 60 or 70 meter rappel that goes over some lips or edges. I worry that with the full weight of the rope and friction from the edges the bungee in the escaper might not be strong enough to make the springing release motion needed to start releasing the escaper (for those who don't understand the escaper isnt worked free by pulling down per se but by the spring back up motion when it is released from tension). In this type of worst case scenario someone could potentially be forced to ascend the rope to get back to the anchor and I was curious to know if the action of ascending would make it start slipping. In this much smaller and limited test I can confidently say it didn't slip while ascending! 

Not trying to proclaim this thing safe and perfect in all scenarios, but like I said in the intro just wanted to throw this data point out there.
It would be great to hear about any tests other people out there have done with this thing.