Is it ethical to be/head to JTree right now?

Marc801 C wrote:

That's cause Ted is angry about this thread and hates it, hence his lame attempts to derail it instead of just not reading it anymore.

Yep, you got me.  That’s clearly a much more likely explanation than “Ted is bored and this thread already derailed itself on the first page, so everyone who continues to post in it is basically just trolling.”  Marc - what, exactly, do you think this thread is about?

Ted Pinson wrote:

Yep, you got me.  That’s clearly a much more likely explanation than “Ted is bored and this thread already derailed itself on the first page, so everyone who continues to post in it is basically just trolling.”  Marc - what, exactly, do you think this thread is about?

I'm not sure anymore - you ranting perhaps? ;-)

Actually I found some of the posts amusing in their stunning lack of knowledge and utter belief of #fakepresident's lies.

Sure, but you do realize that the original point of the thread was to discuss whether people should go to JTree during the shutdown, irregardless of their feelings towards the shutdown itself and 45? People are posting pictures of dogs and cats upthread, yet you single me out for derailing the thread because I pointed out something that actually addressed the original topic?

Ted Pinson wrote:  irregardless

Just for fun and more derailment. 

Ah, ok.  I’m fine with that, then.

Much of this thread is a ridiculous pissing match.  What is most ethical to do, if you love Joshua Tree National Park, is volunteer.  Go there & do what is needed: Clean toilets, pick up trash, report off road 4-wheeling & cutting down Joshua Trees to the rangers or personally confront the vandals.  I am posting an article that was in the Los Angeles Times - Meet the paraplegic rock climber keeping Joshua Tree National Park clean during shutdown.  https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-joshua-tree-cleanup-20190109-story.html   As for Trump's temper tantrum & Mitch McConnell's refusal to end this shutdown:  They should be held accountable, removed from office & even prosecuted.  They are in violation of their oath of office to protect the US constitution, for dismissing their responsibility keep the federal government funded & operating.  There will always be disagreements over policy & ideology in Washington DC, but presidents & lawmakers shouldn't shut down the government when they don't get their way.  They have caused damage to our public lands & put 800,000 federal workers through serious hardship.  The TSA needs to go on strike & shut down the airports.  It is illegal for federal workers to strike, but they have very right to break that law under the current situation. They are being treated like shit by Trump.  Being forced to working without pay is against the 13th Amendment that prohibits slavery & indentured servitude. Shutting down the airports would end this shutdown within a few hours.  I think that can be guaranteed.  

Mark Rolofson wrote: Much of this thread is a ridiculous pissing match.  

Yes, it is. Including your blatantly one-sided partisan post!

FrankPS wrote:

Yes, it is. Including your blatantly one-sided partisan post!

Yeah, but he's right!

Marc801 C wrote:

Yeah, but he's right!

Right. Because Pelosi is totally willing to negotiate. Something about not one dollar. 

That’s like negotiating with an arsonist who wants to burn your house down.  “Can’t I just burn ONE room?  No???  GAWD, you’re so unreasonable!”

FrankPS wrote:

Yes, it is. Including your blatantly one-sided partisan post!

And the pissing match continues

FrankPS wrote:

Yes, it is. Including your blatantly one-sided partisan post!

Frank, I attempted to focus on some of the impacts of the government shutdown:  Joshua Tree & federal workers working without pay.  Yes I pointed fingers at Trump & McConnell because they are willing to shut down the government to get their way.  I didn't mention the reason for the shutdown, being Trump's demand for the border wall to stop caravans of immigrant refugees, illegal drugs, etc. That wasn't my focus in this discussion.  

Now I will do so, because clearly some of you are clueless.  I don't agree with the wall or any need for Trump to declare a national emergency.  To be clear, I've got bones to pick with both establishment parties in Washington DC that represent the ruling elite.  I consider myself to be a Progressive & a Democratic Socialist.  I support the Progressives (Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard & Alexandria Ocasio Cortez) in the Democratic Party, who represent the people & that the DNC tries to undermine.  So now you know a bit about my political beliefs, diss them all you want. 

An expensive border wall will be ineffective.  People will either tunnel underneath it or ladder over it.  It will have an impact of wildlife in the desert, however.  Trump has cited the need for the wall being illegal drugs, criminals & gangs.  Blatant lies.  According to federal law enforcement agencies, drugs aren't coming across the border by land in refugee caravans, but rather driven across at legal points of entry.  Refugees seeking asylum are risking the dangerous trek across the desert to escape dictators & criminal gangs in countries like Honduras.  If we want to stop the flow of  immigrant asylum seekers, then US foreign policy is the problem.  The US backs dictators in Central America, like President Hernandez of Honduras, who stole the 2018 election & took over in a military coup in 2009.  Many US Administrations, going back over 100 years, have backed dictators in Central & South America.  The US has backed whoever will most profit our business interests & the ability for exploit cheap labor & the environment.  The US empire has a dark history & we are starting to see its impacts, including the influx of refugees.
 
As for the impacts of the government shutdown, the greatest one is to the US economy.  People across the political spectrum are agreeing on the economic impacts of this shutdown.  It is bad for the economy already, but if it continues it will get much worse.   I am no fan of the corporate media, but sometimes they get it right.  Watch this CCN video clip.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGI7kzJtbl0

Mark Rolofson wrote: What is most ethical to do, if you love Joshua Tree National Park, is volunteer.  Go there & do what is needed: Clean toilets, pick up trash, report off road 4-wheeling & cutting down Joshua Trees to the rangers or personally confront the vandal..

Most ethical is to volunteer? When should I do that? Um, I work my ass off so I can have a bunch of money, great healthcare, and the ability to pay a shitload of taxes... and to play real hard of course...

Now you're telling me I have to volunteer? Yes, you are a Bernie supporter... 

x15x15 wrote:

Most ethical is to volunteer? When should I do that? Um, I work my ass off so I can have a bunch of money, great healthcare, and the ability to pay a shitload of taxes... and to play real hard of course...

Now you're telling me I have to volunteer? Yes, you are a Bernie supporter... 

your ability to pay a shitload of taxes doesn't really mean a whole lot because practically none of it is going to Jtree. He's right, if you really want to help, the only thing you can do in this moment is to go out there and volunteer in place of the people who normally protect the land from destruction. 

eli poss wrote: 

your ability to pay a shitload of taxes doesn't really mean a whole lot because practically none of it is going to Jtree. He's right, if you really want to help, the only thing you can do in this moment is to go out there and volunteer in place of the people who normally protect the land from destruction. 

You know, your argument just doesn't make sense to me. 

Where does the government get the meager funds they give to JT? Now, bear with me here, but it seems your arguing we should always volunteer at JT? 

And since they have no money to pay the workers regardless, why is it such a big deal now? Oh, that's right, because the taxes do go for JT. And you just think like Bernie... correct? 

x15x15 wrote:

Most ethical is to volunteer? When should I do that? Um, I work my ass off so I can have a bunch of money, great healthcare, and the ability to pay a shitload of taxes... and to play real hard of course...

Now you're telling me I have to volunteer? Yes, you are a Bernie supporter... 

I'm not telling you what to do.  If I could & unfortunately I can't right now, I would go to Joshua Tree to volunteer.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't do some climbing too.  I simply said "What is most ethical to do, if you love Joshua Tree National Park, is volunteer".  I find it really inspiring how this paraplegic guy, Rand Abbott, is spending his time & money volunteering to clean & stock bathrooms, pick-up trash & confront vandals.

x15x15 wrote:

You know, your argument just doesn't make sense to me. 

Where does the government get the meager funds they give to JT? Now, bear with me here, but it seems your arguing we should always volunteer at JT? 

And since they have no money to pay the workers regardless, why is it such a big deal now? Oh, that's right, because the taxes do go for JT. And you just think like Bernie... correct? 

No, actually I'm not arguing you should always volunteer at Jtree. I clearly stated that it is the only thing you can do right now. And as for the tax money, how much do you think actually goes to Jtree. For every dollar you pay in taxes, how much of it goes to J tree? The vast majority of it is going elsewhere, as budgets for land managers get cut year after year. 

Also, because this thread isn't already derailed enough, I figure we could all use some memes. 

Government shutdown, day 30-

It’s been an entire month without government. TSA agents are standing on street corners holding signs reading “Will fondle genitals for food”, Park rangers have literally eaten Smokey the Bear to survive, DEA agents are trading weed for ramen noodles, and NASA employees are threatening to expose the Earth as being flat if they’re not provided MRE rations.

The rest of society is currently at war with one another over a commercial depicting a young white child in a Trump hat smiling at a Native elder who is shaving with a Gillette razor as two immigrants climb over the border wall in the background. Everything is upside down, and I’m on my way to Washington to attempt to stop the madness.

Brother Numsie wrote:Everything is upside down, and I’m on my way to Washington to attempt to stop the madness.

Not sure you’re supposed to announce plans to assassinate the president on a public forum, but...good luck!