Is it ethical to be/head to JTree right now?

Take it easy on John. Yes, his math is way off. But many Americans don't understand the difference between a million, billion, trillion. It's part of what makes us great!

Despite a few arithmetic errors, we've learned quite a bit from John in this thread:

• There are millions of people that pick tomatoes, operate jackhammers, clean toilets, hose blood off the floor in slaughterhouses, etc. earning at least $50K / year
• All of the payroll is done in cash and hidden from the books. Every accountant at thousands of business is is in on the scam
• The illegal status of the employees gives them the privilege of not paying taxes and avoiding any scrutiny by the IRS
• They would all gladly pay $3000 so they could start paying taxes
• They have $3000 per family member saved up already (cash, of course, under a mattress?) just waiting to make this payment
• We can reduce the national debt simply by tapping into the cash savings of the poorest people in the country
• A wall made of concrete or steel or whatever - we haven't figured that out yet - will change all of this, once we get the all the funding to build it from an unspecified source
• This entire situation is all "the Dems" fault and they should have fixed it years ago, because Obama

  $3000 for a green card? Way lowball.

  Current rate for an EB5 is half a million.

 No discount for slipping in under the radar.

I sincerely think that the whole wall issue and government shutdown is a ruse and the real goal is to privatize large parts of the government. Trump doesn't want the federal employees to come back to work. My bet is if this goes on much longer many federal employees will be looking for work in other sectors. 

Ashort wrote: I sincerely think that the whole wall issue and government shutdown is a ruse and the real goal is to privatize large parts of the government. Trump doesn't want the federal employees to come back to work. My bet is if this goes on much longer many federal employees will be looking for work in other sectors. 

Even if it's privatized, it still has to be funded.

Hey guys, headed to Jtree Saturday 1/19 evening. Hoping to get in Hidden Valley Campground otherwise I'll be somewhere I am not sure yet because I have never been there. If you want to climb text me. 408.540.4472. Ill be bringing some garbage bags to help pick up whatever I can.

ok get back to arguing about things that aren't related

Sloppy Second wrote: Take it easy on John. Yes, his math is way off. But many Americans don't understand the difference between a million, billion, trillion. It's part of what makes us great!

Despite a few arithmetic errors, we've learned quite a bit from John in this thread:

• There are millions of people that pick tomatoes, operate jackhammers, clean toilets, hose blood off the floor in slaughterhouses, etc. earning at least $50K / year
• All of the payroll is done in cash and hidden from the books. Every accountant at thousands of business is is in on the scam
• The illegal status of the employees gives them the privilege of not paying taxes and avoiding any scrutiny by the IRS
• They would all gladly pay $3000 so they could start paying taxes
• They have $3000 per family member saved up already (cash, of course, under a mattress?) just waiting to make this payment
• We can reduce the national debt simply by tapping into the cash savings of the poorest people in the country
• A wall made of concrete or steel or whatever - we haven't figured that out yet - will change all of this, once we get the all the funding to build it from an unspecified source
• This entire situation is all "the Dems" fault and they should have fixed it years ago, because Obama

What we've learned from you in this thread so far.

Tony B wrote:

Isn't it also true that if you pay an individual < $600 you don't send a 1099 or report that individual to the government?
So if I had a rotating cast of characters doing roofing, or at least claimed to, and supposedly paid each one $500/job, all I'd have to do is claim it was different people for each job?

Sure, but you'd be committing felony tax fraud. Maybe someone should start enforcing those laws on employers?

So what is the consensus on climbers entering the park during the shutdown?

apoet wrote: So what is the consensus on climbers entering the park during the shutdown?

Go.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Sure, but you'd be committing felony tax fraud. Maybe someone should start enforcing those laws on employers?

And how do you suppose that we would go about enforcing them? 

Hey everyone, look, here’s a happy Corgi!

eli poss wrote:

And how do you suppose that we would go about enforcing them? 

Same way you catch any white-collar crook. It starts by giving law enforcement, in this case the IRS, the money they need to do their job. An additional $5 billion more funding for IRS enforcement will catch far more tax cheats than a downpayment on a wall in the desert (and audits often pay for themselves, e.g. Manafort.)

The trend has been the opposite: https://www.cbpp.org/blog/underfunded-irs-continues-to-audit-less

The reason white collar crime enforcement has been underfunded is simple: there is a high correlation between political donors and tax cheats. Of course your typical migrant worker is not a political donor. But their employers often are. There is a sizable portion of small business owners that are very cavalier about ignoring tax laws. Because they rarely get caught. Conveniently, the shutdown will likely mean there is even less enforcement this year.

More money to the three letter Mafia?  Worst idea ever.  If we simply abolished them and got rid of the personal income tax altogether this would be a moot point.  It directly violates the constitution as it is.  Remember the part “guaranteed privacy in your papers and affects”.

Greg D wrote: More money to the three letter Mafia?  Worst idea ever.  If we simply abolished them and got rid of the personal income tax altogether this would be a moot point.  It directly violates the constitution as it is.  Remember the part “guaranteed privacy in your papers and affects”.

If you feel the revenue should be replaced, a consumption tax wouldn’t care if you are an illegal immigrant or not. 

Agreed. Increasing government funding or personal is NOT the solution. 

Greg D wrote: More money to the three letter Mafia?  Worst idea ever.  If we simply abolished them and got rid of the personal income tax altogether this would be a moot point.  It directly violates the constitution as it is.  Remember the part “guaranteed privacy in your papers and affects”.

Not entirely correct.
https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/the-truth-about-frivolous-tax-arguments-section-i-d-to-e

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/income-tax-constitutional.asp

grog m wrote:

Agreed. Increasing government funding or personal is NOT the solution. 

Absolutely. 

The solution should never involve people or money.

We need cost-free, self-building walls, self-enforcing borders that don't need guards, self-enforcing laws against murder/rape/theft that don't need police, self-destructing terrorists, and most important of all: self-cleaning national park shitters.

EDIT:

Hey! We made it a whole 10 pages before the "gubmint is unconstitutional because gold fringe on the flag" crowd showed up.

I'll now do my part to help this thread die.

Marc801 C wrote: Not entirely correct.
https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/the-truth-about-frivolous-tax-arguments-section-i-d-to-e

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/income-tax-constitutional.asp

Rather ironic source for your information. If you are charged with a crime would you got to the prosecutor to get his/her interpretation of the law?  I’ve read that stuff through and through, nonetheless.  The very first income tax in this country, Abe Lincoln time, was ruled unconstitutional. The next one was snuck in to put a very tiny tax on only very wealthy. It applied to almost nobody. I could go on and on. You might be able to find this info yourself. But it won’t be on the three letter mafia site. 

Sloppy Second wrote:

Absolutely. 

The solution should never involve people or money.

We need... self-destructing terrorists,

We already have those. 

Greg D wrote: More money to the three letter Mafia?  Worst idea ever.  If we simply abolished them and got rid of the personal income tax altogether this would be a moot point.  It directly violates the constitution as it is.  Remember the part “guaranteed privacy in your papers and affects”.

If you feel the revenue should be replaced, a consumption tax wouldn’t care if you are an illegal immigrant or not. 

I like this idea. Raise sales tax a little bit and then raise taxes on tobacco and alcohol. Then legalize weed and put some hefty taxes on it. That's what we've done here in colorado and it's great because stoners (who are ironically stigmatized for not being productive) are essentially paying my taxes. And the higher taxes will discourage substance use and smoking, which then gives us slightly cleaner air. Kill 3 birds with 1 stone. 

Greg D wrote:

Rather ironic source for your information. If you are charged with a crime would you got to the prosecutor to get his/her interpretation of the law?  I’ve read that stuff through and through, nonetheless.  The very first income tax in this country, Abe Lincoln time, was ruled unconstitutional. The next one was snuck in to put a very tiny tax on only very wealthy. It applied to almost nobody. I could go on and on. You might be able to find this info yourself. But it won’t be on the three letter mafia site. 

The source is irrelevant if the information is correct.