AT skiers, slipping up?
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I'm hoping some of you guys have some advice for me.I am trying to avoid signing up for too many websites and I know a lot of the same experts from those snowy websites probably climb. |
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Your father in law is right. Your skins aren't even wide enought to cover the waist of the ski. You want them to be at least as wide as the tail width. Go to any skin manufacturers website and there will be a guide for sizing your skins. |
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I agree with your father in law. Edge to edge coverage would probably fix your problem. You also probably need to work on technique. Generally you want to stay off your edges and keep the ski flat on the snow surface. Also, its a bit counter intuitive, but you need to lean back to weight your skis more underfoot and stay off your toes. Think about walking like Frankenstein. Many experienced A/T skiers don't even use the highest riser because if you need that, the skin track is too steep. |
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Some skin tracks are just plain old greasy af, but it sounds like the coverage might be giving you issues. Technique on steep shit is pretty important also, got to keep weight on the heels and don't lean forward to much like I tend to. Stomping deliberately with each step and pulling some new snow into the track sometimes works. Good topic and I'm sure that you'll get some good advice on here. I could go on but my phone is difficult to type on so I'm out |
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Conditions vary, but usually when I'm on something steep enough to warrant using my highest riser, I have to start making switchbacks. At that point, I'm relying on my edges to stop any downward slip. Past a certain angle, you're gonna slip, regardless of skin coverage or material. |
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This^ |
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Thanks guys. For sizing, I have the G3 cutting tool from my wife's skins. It seems to make cutting and sizing easy and fun. |
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Both the G3 and Pomoca tool work great. With your skis I wouldn't worry much about the taper in the front but as you get wider skis It's nice to cut down on the bulk and weight of the skin. |
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Im a BC ski neophyte, but I have a couple different skins that I’ve been using. The G3 high traction alpinist skins are crazy grippy, they go up most anything that I’ve thrown at them. They also don’t glide at all. But compared to the mohair and the mixed skins I have they are super grippy. |
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https://skimo.co/binding-riser-heights
good info, should help a bit |
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Happy with the BD Ascension (good for damp east coast snow), trimmed with the G3 tool at full base coverage. I'm 200# with Helios 95mm 175cm skis. |
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highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote 1. Try to stay out of the highest riser if possible #deathtothehighriser. Tons of skin tracks out there are made by people with honestly shitty technique and are too steep, don't be afraid to cut your own. Watch how/ ask how a guide sets a track, if you can't hold a conversation while you're skinning on an established track, it's probably too steep. 2. Yes some slightly wider skins will help you, but you aren't really solving the problem just a symptom. I've run 70MM waisted short G3 skins on 86MM waisted longer skis that I only had a problem when the skin track was starting to get high, or on a steep cross slope angle. Your G3 skins are probably Nylon.3. That full edge to edge coverage for the entire length of the ski usually leads to these shitty skin tracks and bad technique in the first place. There is no need for full edge to edge for Nylon. Also pushing around that much nylon plush is only slowing you down. Look and see how small and relatively low coverage skimo skis and skins are, you don't have to be full spandex to learn good things from racers. 4. Yes Nylon grabs better, brand really doesn't matter for nylon skins anymore. Not mentioned in your question but also make sure you're "standing tall" and taking shorter strides when you're skinning. Usually those too steep skin tracks also don't help you have efficient body technique either. https://youtu.be/N7yYv5yKqiE And yeah the G3 skin cutting tool is the tits! You just slap the skins on the skis and cut, no moving or adjusting. |
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i pretty much agree w/ norcal. it's been a while since i have done much skinning, but i used to do a lot of it. i had skins that were really skinny compared to my (still pretty skinny) skis. when i would go out with new partners they would be concerned that my skins wouldn't work, but i never had any problems. i also never used the heel risers, i tend to hike pretty flat footed when i am going uphill anyway, so i never bothered with them. like norcal said - short steps. also, don't lean forward or you will slip. it's just like walking down a steep slippery trail, when you lean back your feel will blow out from under you. so, stay on top of your feet, which is a lot easier to do with short steps. |
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all good comments. biggest issue I see with beginner skiers (classic technique or in the skin track) is when they don't have kick, they hunch over, putting their center of gravity over the tips of the skis. this is the worst location for kick. NorCal mentions it, but I'll emphasize it, stand tall when you start to slip, look to the top of the track. This puts your COG over the 'kick zone' of the ski. Short strides help as well, watch any pro classic nordic ski race and you can see when the slope angle increases, the stride length decreases dramatically. I don't think you need new skins, I think you need some practice in the skin track. Oh and most skin tracks are too steep in NA, throw some kick turns in and you should be gtg. |
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Thanks for the advice guys. |
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https://www.backcountry.com/explore/touring-tips-skinning-techniques I found this article while poking around and it pretty much sums up my thoughts on skinning, kinda funny too, maybe you can find it of use. Try pulling some fresh snow into the track if it's available also, works good for me , especially when the steep section only involves a few moves to get past it
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Echoing what others have said. Full (or more) coverage skin. I used to have the Bd skins that had a strip going down centerline of no hair to save weight and slipped everywhere. Also echoing what was said, technique is big. Focus on keeping your head up, not leaning forward, pelvis forward, weight on heels, deliberately stopping, shorter stride lengths, and rolling your ankles on traversing terrain to maximize contact with snow (unless it's steep enough and hard enough you are scribing). |
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pkeds wrote:scribing Great, more words to look up. |
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highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:Think this is more what above is talking about. |
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Next question, really a subquestion. |
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They'll be plenty sticky so I wouldn't worry about it, if anything the Ascensions were "too" sticky out of the box and got better over time. I also wouldn't leave your skins on your skis for any extended period of time unless you're using them, they'll take the wax of your skis and dry out the bases. |