Moccasym State?

Ma Ja wrote:

Depends what you climb I guess. Evolv rubber is terrible on plastic, and mediocre on sandstone. C4 is killer on both, and granite, as is Vibram XS Edge. Grip 2 is amazing outdoors, but even worse on plastic than the Evolv rubber. 

You're crazy. Nothing is better than Grip2 on plastic. It's not even close.

s.price wrote:

Believe what you want. Obviously I feel differently than you. I'm good with that. I'll stand by my near 40 years of experience with climbing rubber.

Do you like Evolv rubber because you prefer the added challenge?

Noah Yetter wrote:

You're crazy. Nothing is better than Grip2 on plastic. It's not even close.

I slip off all holds indoors with my grip2. XS Edge and C4 do great in the gym, grip2 not so much. Grip2 smears on Waltopia walls and volumes great though, just not plastic holds, for me. 

That is bizarre.  Walls and volumes should act essentially the same as holds.  What shoes are you using?  When I used Solutions, the Grip 2 rubber worked great indoors.  Not quite as sticky as C4 but more durable.  Edge, on the other hand, is barely useable indoors but great outdoors for me.

Ma Ja wrote:

I slip off all holds indoors with my grip2. XS Edge and C4 do great in the gym, grip2 not so much. Grip2 smears on Waltopia walls and volumes great though, just not plastic holds, for me. 

Edge is absolute garbage in the gym, especially compared to Grip2. It's night and day. Are you sure you know what's on your shoes??

Grip2 is stickier than Edge, at the cost of being softer and less durable, that is literally the whole point. It's stickier on granite, on sandstone, on limestone, and yes, on plastic (fiberglass and plywood, too). Its frictional properties don't magically invert when you go indoors.

Bah this is all thread drift anyway...

I can't tell if this is a serious thread anymore....

In any case, got my new moccs in and they are breaking in really well with no significant signs of the leather tears as seen in previous lots. I don't really test the leather for wear in cracks as I slather it in rubber post break-in/pre-crack usage. I wouldn't mind seeing a slightly more resilience in the midsole, which has occasionally deformed beyond use on me after super sweaty days outside or in the gym.

For what it’s worth I got a new pair of Mocs and they’ve ripped in the same spot after 3 times in the gym :/

I think the durability has something to do with how you size them, as well. If you like down sizing your mocc from an 11 to a 8 1/2, you might have some problems. I know people that do this and it just doesn't make any sense to me (one for sure has rips from pulling them on). If your shoe fits, it's not going to stretch much, even though they have the ability to stretch a lot. I wear a 10 and 10.5 in Hiangles, and wear a 10 in Moccs and they haven't stretched out beyond the typical molding around my feet. They're not sloppy or floppy at all, and have only gotten better. If you want a performance shoe, buy a performance shoe. (Sorry DM)
(But, obviously do what you want. I know moccs are very versitle and I could see someone having many sizes of moccs)

For the record, one pair that I bought ripped by the 3rd gym session. The replaced pair has been great and is almost ready for its first resole.

I know a lot of old school sport climbers who wear tight Moccs on the steeps...they can be really good. If you size them down, they’ll stretch to be decently comfortable in the right places (toebox) while remaining tight in the heel, which can get pretty loose if you don’t downsize.  People have had their shoes slip off on a heel hook...probably depends on your foot.

Ma Ja wrote: I think the durability has something to do with how you size them, as well. If you like down sizing your mocc from an 11 to a 8 1/2, you might have some problems. I know people that do this and it just doesn't make any sense to me (one for sure has rips from pulling them on). If your shoe fits, it's not going to stretch much, even though they have the ability to stretch a lot. I wear a 10 and 10.5 in Hiangles, and wear a 10 in Moccs and they haven't stretched out beyond the typical molding around my feet. They're not sloppy or floppy at all, and have only gotten better. If you want a performance shoe, buy a performance shoe. (Sorry DM)
(But, obviously do what you want. I know moccs are very versitle and I could see someone having many sizes of moccs)

For the record, one pair that I bought ripped by the 3rd gym session. The replaced pair has been great and is almost ready for its first resole.

Is it safe to assume that you climb harder than your ticklist on here? I would say for someone doing hard-ish trad, the huge downsize is necessary to hit those little face feet but also allow for wiggling into finger cracks. I had a larger pair of moccs and they would spin around on my foot after a couple weeks of regular high mileage use.

John Clark wrote:

Is it safe to assume that you climb harder than your ticklist on here? I would say for someone doing hard-ish trad, the huge downsize is necessary to hit those little face feet but also allow for wiggling into finger cracks. I had a larger pair of moccs and they would spin around on my foot after a couple weeks of regular high mileage use.

I'm a sport climber, for the most part, and I don't keep up with my sport tick list. Love gear climbing too, but not in a hurry to push my grade, it's just fun. 

I just returned a pair to REI that I purchased in October. They developed a dime-size hole in a non-stressed part of the upper. Hopefully the pair I bought at Neptune’s a few weeks ago doesn’t develop the same issue. I’ve been wearing Moccasyms for more than twenty years...

I’m planning to try the UP Moccs. 

so far im seeing a little wear on the big toe part of the upper hopefully that doesnt develop into the tear like most pairs but im not optimistic

also seeing tears on each side of the ankle on both shoes, same as a lot of other people. Going to return to REI

Wear after 3 days in the Bridger Jacks on brand new shoes. They are working with me to warranty.

Trevor Thompson wrote:

Wear after 3 days in the Bridger Jacks on brand new shoes. They are working with me to warranty.

Part of me wants to be sympathetic, but the other part of me wants to tell you to stop being wasteful and coat your shoes in seam grip or barge cement before tackling highly abrasive sandstone cracks for multiple days. I have done a week in the creek with moccs from the same "poor quality" vintage (with a couple hundred granite pitches on them beforehand) and they were fine because I coated them before going.

These are my favorite shoe, but since Adidas bought Five Ten, the quality and customer service has fallen by the waist side, is it just better to buy a new pair, $125, when Five Ten owned Five Ten those shoes went for $89!!! :-(

Mike Arechiga wrote: These are my favorite shoe, but since Adidas bought Five Ten, the quality and customer service has fallen by the waist side, is it just better to buy a new pair, $125, when Five Ten owned Five Ten those shoes went for $89!!! :-(

This is my first pair after going through 2 pairs of the Evolv Addicts. I loved the way they felt, but clearly QC is gone. Im going to try the the Up Mocc and if those arent that great I think I will just get Addicts and get them resoled with the five ten rubber.

The UP Mocc is not a direct replacement for the 5.10 Mocc. The UP Mocc is extremely stiff, and there's no way they'll ever get as soft and pliable as a well worn Mocc, which is really what we're all after. Right? The rubber is simply too firm to ever get the sensitivity that the Mocc gets over time, although I really like their rubber, maybe even more than C4. Also, the toe rubber seems like it would not allow for the same kind of foot wedging in thin stuff, that again, most people I know who wear them are after. I definitely think Unparallel should be supported, because they make great shoes, and quite possibly the best rubber, but I just wanted to warn that the UP Mocc will be a dissapointment if you are looking for alternatives to the 5.10 Mocc, unless you are just looking for a cheaper gym shoe.

I have had over 12 pairs of Mocs. It is by far my favorite shoe. But this happened two days ago, after only 5 days of use. I don’t down size much, and they are the same size as all the other pairs I have owned. Emailed 5.10/Adidas and have not heard back from them yet... has anyone got these replace by the company when this happens?