ISO: stalwart soul to repeat Imago Invisibiliae on the SR

Elsa Hapsburg wrote:

LOLOL!!

Deleted it, eh? I just replied, including quoting you.

Not kindly, either.

I thought better of it, leaned toward being more civil and deleted. I hope you chose to do so also.

Best to you, Helen

Old lady H wrote:

LOLOL!!

Deleted it, eh? I just replied, including quoting you.

Not kindly, either.

I thought better of it, leaned toward being more civil and deleted. I hope you chose to do so also.

Best to you, Helen

Best to you seems disingenuous considering the rest of what you wrote. 

Look here, I know who you are and I respect the love you have shown for the experience of climbing, but this conversation is beyond your depth. Some people here have been living and breathing climbing for decades. We have seen trends and ethos develop over many years and we have relevant points we wish to express so that history and values held dear are not trampled by people who can’t be bothered to learn anything. 
You think you have some scathing comment for me?Bring it on, I double dog dare you. 

I’m not sure if I’m more surprised that this thread is still going or that Helen is now talking shit. 

Elsa Hapsburg wrote:

What have I done to make the “community” a better place?

Do you realize that the climbing community is not a place but rather a group of people spread across the globe?So setting aside your poor use of the English language I will respond to the question you most likely meant to ask, what have I done to foster climbers, climbing and public land fostership?
Well, let’s see...I have housed and fed at least a dozen top level climbers you have definitely heard about, some for over a year. I have donated over 50k to at risk youth programs that use climbing to teach kids there is more to life than drugs and gangs.  (Shocker for you, I know, but smoking pot will not help you realize your dreams...)I’ve organized local crag cleanups and paid out of my own pocket to have trucks take everything to the dump when the promised funds never showed up. I have rescued people off El Cap in an ice storm from the Muir headwall. I carried a body out of the Karakoram so it could be returned to her family. Her partner was too freaked out to be of any use. I built the trail to the crag behind my house. But most importantly, I set a high standard for the youth to follow and do so with integrity, because without role models there is nothing to aspire to or be inspired by. 
You really have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking to.

Wow! I can smell your ego from here. Are you the "real" Tradiban?!?

Elsa Hapsburg wrote:

Best to you seems disingenuous considering the rest of what you wrote. 

Look here, I know who you are and I respect the love you have shown for the experience of climbing, but this conversation is beyond your depth. Some people here have been living and breathing climbing for decades. We have seen trends and ethos develop over many years and we have relevant points we wish to express so that history and values held dear are not trampled by people who can’t be bothered to learn anything. 
You think you have some scathing comment for me?Bring it on, I double dog dare you. 

Elsa? The post you have deleted is what I had quoted, and had written a not so kind reply. That, was what my response above referred to. Perhaps it was mere self interest that made you delete it, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Not disingenuous on my part.

So? I deleted mine, which also deleted yours.

And, decided to opt for civility.

If you know who I am, bully for you. Creepy as hell, but it's happened before. I don't know who you are. But, I am pretty much as represented. I am indeed 61, so don't give me crap about being in over my head on the ethos of preserving values. Do your research on MP, and you will find I'm on the preservation ​side of the argument most all of the time. It's a long, hard, slog, and you aren't the only one who cares about this stuff, or a lot of other contentious issues. 

In other words, you and I probably would argue on the same side for our public lands. So would Fritz. Huh.

Did he make mistakes? OMG!!! Let's sharpen the pitchforks! For craps sake, he made all of it as right as he could, as quickly as he could, with the rangers, at the time. Going forward? Hey, he is hardly arguing that this is something fabulous to be emulated. 

Fritz is my friend. I am deeply glad he got out okay, but I would feel the same if it was your anonymous ass that had a close call. I think all of us have that in common, at least I hope so.

Best, Helen

Elsa Hapsburg wrote:

What have I done to make the “community” a better place?

Do you realize that the climbing community is not a place but rather a group of people spread across the globe?So setting aside your poor use of the English language I will respond to the question you most likely meant to ask, what have I done to foster climbers, climbing and public land fostership?
Well, let’s see...I have housed and fed at least a dozen top level climbers you have definitely heard about, some for over a year. I have donated over 50k to at risk youth programs that use climbing to teach kids there is more to life than drugs and gangs.  (Shocker for you, I know, but smoking pot will not help you realize your dreams...)I’ve organized local crag cleanups and paid out of my own pocket to have trucks take everything to the dump when the promised funds never showed up. I have rescued people off El Cap in an ice storm from the Muir headwall. I carried a body out of the Karakoram so it could be returned to her family. Her partner was too freaked out to be of any use. I built the trail to the crag behind my house. But most importantly, I set a high standard for the youth to follow and do so with integrity, because without role models there is nothing to aspire to or be inspired by. 
You really have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking to.

I type even slower than I rappel, lol!

Look, bravo, okay? Truly. But, others care also. Dont tar and feather those who would share the fight, eh?

I was in on wolf reintroduction decades ago. The quiet truth, is that wolves had already made their way back to Idaho. Conservationists, Fish and Game guys, and ranchers and stockmen all knew it.

And quietly brokered out the details before it all went public and they were "reintroduced" officially.

Strange bedfellows. But? All shared a deep love for the public lands that they knew so well.

Best, Helen

Helen, you do know me.
We have talked before.
I’ve been on MP for many years. 
And this is not about what he did in the wilderness, really.
It is about him posting it on line for the authorities to see.

If you need to start a fire to stay alive, do it. Don’t even think about it, just do it.

But don’t post about it on the internet.
The only reason to do so is to bring attention to yourself.

And I did NOT delete any post. I was quoting him and the quote posted before I could type a comment. 

Elsa Hapsburg wrote: Helen, you do know me.
We have talked before.
I’ve been on MP for many years. 
And this is not about what he did in the wilderness, really.
It is about him posting it on line for the authorities to see.

If you need to start a fire to stay alive, do it. Don’t even think about it, just do it.

But don’t post about it on the internet.
The only reason to do so is to bring attention to yourself.

And I did NOT delete any post. I was quoting him and the quote posted before I could type a comment. 

Excuse me....the post where you talked about smiling for the camera? And Joe Kinder? "Authorities" is not the word you used in that post.

Yes, we all get it, don't get the attention of the Big Guns who don't give a shit from their office back east. For craps sake, I'm a native Westerner. This is religion, here, lol!

He made it as good as he could with the guys on the ground.

Again. Dont go after people who are essentially on the same team. It's hugely pointless.

I only use a partial alias on here, so little of one it's almost a joke. A great many have my full address and phone number. Again. I do not know you, as that is the choice you ​have made.

One of the largest rallies in the country.

I'll be editing in another photo, shortly. I'm not afraid to stand up for myself, my beliefs, my friends, and my community.

Me. No avatar, no alias. No anonymity.

Best, Helen

EDIT to add:
Oh good grief. All right, Elsa, semi apologies. You were going after Fritz elsewhere, and didn't delete from this thread. That, lovely, thoughtful post still stands elsewhere.

Guess I should take notes. You're hard to keep track of....

Ooooo! But at least I'm wearing goretex? ;-)

H.

Don’t post about breaking the rules on public lands.

That is the only comment I wish to make emphatically.

Do whatever you want, but posting it on the internet could hurt everyone. I have seen it happen in the past, and there was no coming back from that. We were shut out and will never be allowed back in.
You don’t understand how callous the government can be on these issues.
They don’t play around.

If he really cares about this, he’s be getting his stuff out now, instead of going somewhere else.

If something harsh I said to Fritz offended you, well I can’t help you there.
I wasn’t talking to a nice woman from Idaho, I was talking to an egotistical jerk from GJ.

I live 20 miles from the Black, so this is my home turf.

All are free to differ, it’s a big world.
You have your opinion and I have mine.
I don’t feel mine has more or less weight than any other, but it is mine and it is my right to express it.
Express your opinion without denigrating mine and I will try to do the same.
If I have failed at that in your perception, forgive me as it was not intended. 

Dang y’all!!!No but seriously. ...

Dang!  Its all fun and games until someone gets hurt or F$&@s up.

#publiclands

Elsa Hapsburg wrote: If he really cares about this, he’s be getting his stuff out now, instead of going somewhere else.

Just to keep the slagging accurate - back a couple of pages in the thread you'd have found that he retrieved his stuff about 6 days ago, also removing an abandoned stuck rope from someone else.

Old lady H wrote:

EDIT to add:

Oh good grief. All right, Elsa, semi apologies. You were going after Fritz elsewhere, and didn't delete from this thread. That, lovely, thoughtful post still stands elsewhere.

Guess I should take notes. You're hard to keep track of....

No need to:

Nice going, Helen!

Helen, when one member uses the MP PM system to tell another member to "Eat a dick you little shithead", they don't get a lot of leeway.

Nick Wilder wrote: Helen, when one member uses the MP PM system to tell another member to "Eat a dick you little shithead", they don't get a lot of leeway.

Ah crap. Sorry to hear, sir. Really, really sorry. Thanks for the public explanation. You have no obligation to tell us, it is appreciated. So. I've thumbs upped your post also. Sigh. 

Elsa? Get it together, please? You have worth and could have contributed a lot, I think.

Best, Helen

slevin wrote: Any well-travelled climber who has also climbed a lot in the Black realizes the special nature of the climber experience here. There are few restrictive rules, little LEO presence, friendly rangers (and on the NRim they are mostly climbers), a free and unregulated inner-canyon pass system, an inexpensive campground with (at times) water and wood supplied (remember your wood $ donations!), fixed ropes in the Cruise gully set-up and maintained by the rangers, and a laidback mellow vibe. The climbing "experience" is basically unchanged since I first visited many decades ago, but I'm sure the pioneers from the 50s & 60s could say the same thing. It's really quite a unique place. If only the climbing was better!!

I think it is inevitable that things are going to change in the future if the canyon continues to attract newer climbers. We've all been there at times when we were the only climbers in the NRim CG, and it's a cool experience in this day and age to find such a big place deserted. Personally, it makes me feel special when that happens, like I'm the luckiest climber in the world. It's a feeling that I want to defend, even if I'm a mere Front Range visitor.

This last season (2018) is the first time ever that I've arrived at the NRim CG mid-week to find the place packed-to-the-ceiling with climbers. (It happened twice!) Man was that a buzz kill. The place (especially the CG) has a really low carrying capacity, and just can't hold that many people. So simply from sheer numbers things are going to change in the future. It's gonna be a bummer. And you know what, climbers can do everything in the book to maintain a low-profile LNT existence there (unfortunately many don't) and things are still going to change.

So the less we talk about and advertise the Black, the slower that process is going to occur. I cringe when I see the latest article about the Black in the climbing mags, tooting the place as the latest and greatest, must-do area to check off on your climbing travels. (I've been part of that in the past, when things were a little quieter, and I regret it.) The best that all of us can do is behave well, and keep the Black-spraying off the internet as much as possible. That's my opinion only.

In the MP comments for the Black Canyon intro section is this quote, from Rob Dillon, which has always hit a chord with me. It's something we should all keep in mind when contemplating our actions:

“The NPS collar only ratchets one way. If things appear unruly to the Black Canyon brass, or their bosses, it's only going to get stricter. Raise your hand if you want to see this happen.”

-Steve Levin

Well said. 

Nick Wilder wrote: Helen, when one member uses the MP PM system to tell another member to "Eat a dick you little shithead", they don't get a lot of leeway.

wait what??? Not cool. Haters going to hate.

BillS wrote:

The account to be deactivated is Fritz'. 

An admitted pot smoker and convicted felon, gets an unusual fine by the NPS essentially for being a dumb narc, loses his job - then proceeds to flood this forum with a level of asshattery not seen since Elenor - who was deactivated - repeatedly.  

For the love of God and all that is decent in this sport and the areas we are allowed roam - please make it stop.

The pot-smoking is a crime against humanity.  

BillS, you have been saving this account since 2015 just to make this one and only comment?  Don't waste your good burner accounts on a thread this lame yo!

BillS wrote:

The account to be deactivated is Fritz'. 

An admitted pot smoker...

In a state where it is legal.