Chicken clipping ice tools fail?

jdejace wrote:

https://kellycordes.com/2013/01/06/chicken-clip-ice-pro-pointer/

This used to be SOP for me BITD when placing those old Chouinard screws on steep ice with that wretched ratchet. Get to a 'stance', clip spike of right Chacal, and pull out third tool--usually a small Hummingbird--to place screw or more often on steep ice a snarg, which was easier for me to do one handed if still a little dicey. Never dropped one though. Sometimes if it was steep for a long way I'd clip a biner in the eye on the spike and just climb with it already in there to help mitigate the clipping stress. You get used to it tapping your arm. Very rarely feel the need to do this with modern screws (or for that matter carry the Hummingibird), but YMMV.

DrRockso wrote:

That looks like the lead singer of Group X. He can count all the way up to schfifty five.

DrRockso wrote:

No. You take the rope and toss it over your tool if you're going to do that, and have your partner take.

OP said they are climbing on X-Dreams.  Do you really think it's safe to recommend somebody throw their rope over the top of this tool, and then potentially fall/take onto it?  The top of an X-Dream (and many other modern technical tools) has sharp nasty serrations on it!

Throwing the rope over used to be an easier task because some tools were designed for it. For example, check out the notch built into the top of the old Petzl Quark. You're probably okay doing it with modern tools because rope sheaths are pretty strong, but it's definitely not as simple as it used to be and I'd be wary.

https://www.thealpinestart.com/2019/01/22/tech-tip-impact-forces-during-a-fall/

This is why you don't use the pommel

sandrock wrote:

This is why you don't use the pommel

That guy did take a 0.5 meter fall onto his leashes.. So... If you want to hang on your leashes buy a DMM or something thats fully rated.

Jordan W wrote:

That guy did take a 0.5 meter fall onto his leashes.. So... If you want to hang on your leashes buy a DMM or something thats fully rated.

Or tie some short loops through the slot in the handles a la Nomic 1.0?

I have x-dreams, and my understanding is that the hole in the handle is designed to hold bodyweight for this reason. I've tied a small loop of cord to make it easier to clip in the event that I would need to, but it's pretty easy to get most biners through.  It seems more straightforward to clip a draw to the tool while getting a screw in, then simply move the draw to the screw once it's in like Kelly Cordes demonstrates in that article. .

I would avoid looping over the head at all costs - the pommel would be a better option.  

If you throw the rope over, you have to call for a take.  Then your belayer knows you rested, and you can't claim the clean send.  But if you just clip-in direct, nobody has to know you rested!

Kyle Tarry wrote:

OP said they are climbing on X-Dreams.  Do you really think it's safe to recommend somebody throw their rope over the top of this tool, and then potentially fall/take onto it?  The top of an X-Dream (and many other modern technical tools) has sharp nasty serrations on it!

The rope oughta not lay on the serations unless you have an really deep stick.  I climb on the x dreams as well. One should be having their partner take if flipping the rope over,  use some common sense and make your own decisions. 

That pommel design sucks. Gah. All plastic to hold the metal part. 

So I was looking at the UIAA testing procedure that someone else uploaded, and maybe I am not understanding what I am seeing, but it looks *to me* that the pommel connection should be at least 2kN.....

Shepido wrote: So I was looking at the UIAA testing procedure that someone else uploaded, and maybe I am not understanding what I am seeing, but it looks *to me* that the pommel connection should be at least 2kN.....

That is saying 2kn for the attachment point, so on the new nomic that would be the cut out in the handle as shown in the provided manual.

Jamie Severini wrote: This has come up previously with regards to the pommel spike on vipers. If I recall correctly I think a BD rep, or someone in the know, said it was considerably burly and could tolerate bodyweight without issue. Can anyone confirm or deny my memory on that?

I'm curious if the pommel spike on the Alpine x-dream can tolerate that as well, if not are the eyeholes in the grip big enough for a biner? I know the regular x dreams don't have the spike so the option is limited. 

Similarly is it ever practiced to build an anchor on easy terrain with two tools and skip screws? For example - top out a pitch of WI2-3 on a large stance where you wouldn't need an anchor or protection to comfortably move or belay the next pitch. Fire in both tools shaft deep and clip the head holes, grip holes, or pommel spikes, and sling them accordingly to bring up the second in guidemode - keeping the anchor load down.

Keeping out the idea of the leader falling off the next pitch and dragging the party down the whole flow before placing a few screws - what does everyone think of the tools function in that scenario?

Mountain guide Mike Barter has a video on what you are describing, though slightly modified.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8bHA53wko