Evaluating snowpack at peaks and ridges

kiff wrote: the previous post is absurd in regard to the quality and quantity of our gringo/canuck mountains (canada is close enough to count) .  there are endless opportunities out there.  sure, they aint the biggest nor most glamorous peaks out there, but you will learn nonetheless.   and the whole mentor thing is overrated in my opinion.  sure, it's important to learn to follow in order to become a good leader (literally and allegorically) though this is meaningless if you don't have the stomach to follow your heart.

just get out there and give 'er, lad!

really don't understand how a boulderite can say the US doesn't have alpine terrain but no matter, more for the rest of us.

More than happy to recognize the quality of Canadian mountains. It's international, and requires getting on a plane for most of us. It's not a weekend outing, and only has a minor impact on the talent pool of American climbers. Case in point, most who do head up that way (although admittedly not all) go for the ice or for bugaboo's rock not snow/mixed alpine routes.

Edit: I'd assumed OP was American because this is MP. Just realized though that the OP is Canadian. He has hope...

Bogdan P wrote:

Freedom of the Hills is overrated. You don't learn to write well by reading the dictionary. Ditto for FOTH and climbing. I got more out of 1 year's worth of Alpinist issues than I ever got from FOTH. Eiger Dreams and Kills or Kill are also good for similar reasons.

Mentorship is fantasy. The lucky few have one. I've never had one and only ever encountered a couple of real mentors in the field, usually parents of the mentee or in some other way similarly deeply personally invested in the person for reasons beyond the climbing. Figure it out without a mentor or be prepared to never figure it out, especially if you aspire to high end alpine climbing. I live in Boulder, and even there I hardly ever meet anybody with the kind of experience on display in that photo you posted, despite an exceptional level of raw technical skill. There are simply too few alpinists out there and too many people in your shoes treading water for you to be able to rely on finding a mentor who will take you under their wing. You want to learn to trad climb, or even ice climb? Sure. You have some hope of finding a mentor of some kind. Alpine climbing as an American? You're on your own.

The US does not have alpine terrain (except AK, which might as well be a different country), ergo alpine climbing is a rare skillset among American climbers. The US has world class trad climbing, pretty good ice/mixed, and passable sport climbing, and this is reflected by our climbing culture. Our climbing idols are people like Royal Robins, Bridwell, or more recently Caldwell and Honnold. Notice a pattern? Trad climbers all. Because Alpine climbing requires international travel the local talent pool is small. As long as you live in the USA this will be true. Even if you find a skilled alpinist, it's unlikely you'll have anywhere reasonable for them to take you to learn. There just isn't anywhere nearby for you to learn about risk management in heavily glaciated terrain, or to learn about moving fast over thousands of feet of mixed ground.

Here's one roadmap that can work (there are others):
https://www.summitpost.org/alpinism-101-an-introduction/756518
In retrospect it's not all that different from my own learning process.

Also, here:
http://www.alpinist.com/

Find a good buddy to accompany you on the journey, and get moving. That's your best hope.

Bogdan, among the great posts that i have seen on this thread (and there are many) this one is truly great in my opinion. I honestly felt hopeless without a mentor, but you are right, just get out there and learn. I think that for anyone in my shoes this is great advice, as long as I or any beginner for that matter are aware of our personal limits and capabilities and dont get “summit fever”, if you will. I think this way of learning is probably the only way to go sometimes and in my case is the only way at this point. 

I visit portugal every year to stay with my wifes familiy so I have access to Europe from there (i am here now for christmas), I an hoping to make it out to the alps next time i come around for a guided climb out there. Anyone know any good alpine climbs (guided of course) that are sutible for the beginner? 
Guys thanks for posting!
Colin

North Col wrote:

Bogdan, among the great posts that i have seen on this thread (and there are many) this one is truly great in my opinion. I honestly felt hopeless without a mentor, but you are right, just get out there and learn. I think that for anyone in my shoes this is great advice, as long as I or any beginner for that matter are aware of our personal limits and capabilities and dont get “summit fever”, if you will. I think this way of learning is probably the only way to go sometimes and in my case is the only way at this point. 

I visit portugal every year to stay with my wifes familiy so I have access to Europe from there (i am here now for christmas), I an hoping to make it out to the alps next time i come around for a guided climb out there. Anyone know any good alpine climbs (guided of course) that are sutible for the beginner? 
Guys thanks for posting!
Colin

Buy a copy of this book. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mont-Blanc-Finest-Philippe-Batoux/dp/1906148643/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_0/257-0846602-4510508?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BW46S3YHP2GMJ34ECKH0

When you think you're ready to go after the easier routes head up there. Go in June/July/August your first time, not during a Christmas trip.

Easy routes that come to mind (in no particular order) are the Comsiques Arete*, Midi Plan Traverse, Petit Verte, Forbes Arete, Rochefort Arete*, Papillon Ridge. Not all are in that book. You want to be solid on WI3 and 5.8 to start working the easier routes there without a guide, although with a guide it could be much sooner. Watch out though, the French guides can be a bit merciless.

Be aware that the place is dangerous, especially for a novice, and not from the obvious objective reasons, but rather because of the ways it can distort your decision making. The risk tolerances of the locals are very high and people are relatively casual about death, so it's easy to find yourself taking risks that you normally would think twice about, just because you've allowed yourself to get carried along by the local standards.

*ultra classics, but recently suffered some destructive events. Time will tell how they hold up.

Jeff B wrote: No alpine terrain in the US? What is your definition of alpine terrain?

Generally I'd say it follows a similar definition to the one the Supreme Court used for porn. You know it when you see it. In this case in particular I'd say it's what the OP was showing in that photo. There's very little of that kind of climbing in the US, mostly in the PNW I'd venture to guess. If you know of any elsewhere I'd LOVE to hear about it though.

North Col wrote:

“your new, we all think you don’t need to know this so we wont even bother answer, ask some more basic questions” is not what im looking for. 

Your question is not basic, but it's answer is: "It depends."

If you're round Portugal go check out the Pyrenees.  Or Estrela park in Portugal looks cool too, probably alpine AF when the weather sucks...to use the parlance of our time.

And as to nearby alpine terrain...go climb the North ridge of spearhead right now.  Obviously ain't Himalayan but I bet it'd be memorable.

kiff wrote: If you're round Portugal go check out the Pyrenees.  Or Estrela park in Portugal looks cool too, probably alpine AF when the weather sucks...to use the parlance of our time.

Yes im actually heading to sierra de estrella next week to see “cantaro magro”, its an approx 2000m scramble. Some parts have snow as well this time of year so it will be interesting to see! Pyrenees look good and not too much elevation either, I just looked the up! I dodnt know the mountains there where alpine, I will definitely need to take a drive up there. Luckily im in the North of Portugal so both are not too far away. thanks for the post thats awsome