Most useful ball nut size

Thinking of trying some ball nuts to fill out my rack. I have double cams to .3 x4 and a single .2 x4 and a single 00 master cam.

Thinking of getting one or 2 ball nuts to try them out. What size would be most useful to start experimenting with?  Thinking either the smallest or 2nd smallest. 

i tend to use the gold one the most.  followed by red.

Blue is BY FAR the most useful size in my experience, followed by red. I'm surprised there are differing opinions on this matter :)

Yellow and red, they fit under the red 0.1 X4 or grey 000 C3

Blue for sure! I have all 5 but only carry the 3 smallest. The smallest 2 will go places I had never considered possible before getting them. 

The colors on the tubings change. You want the #3 and #4 - the #1 & 2 are quite marginal for free climbing and the #5 is covered by other normal small cams.

you need two Blues apoet. ;)

Ah, see Camp and Trango finally just anodized the handle color - good, as they were always changing the tubing color around.

​Careful consideration when putting your balls on the line... ​​​

Healyje wrote: The colors on the tubings change. You want the #3 and #4 - the #1 & 2 are quite marginal for free climbing and the #5 is covered by other normal small cams.

7 KN for #1 and 8 KN for the larger sizes is quite a bit compared to micro wires/cams.

You have to be very, very good with your placements and be in good rock for the #1 and #2 not to rip long before they ever see 7/8KN. And I am very good with them and have taken lots of free climbing falls on them and can assure you the #1 and #2 are pretty much always going to be marginal without really super stellar placements.

If I like the first one I’ll probably end up with all 3. 

I have all 5 , 2&3 are most useful IMO

rkrum wrote:I disagree that the blue and red are too small for free climbing. I have fallen on them and they haven't been any less reliable than any other very small pro. 

I didn't say they were too small for free climbing, I said the majority of free placements with the #1 & 2 will be marginal unless placed exceptionally in bomb rock. And they aren't any other small pro, they're ballnuts and the two smallest ones are finicky to place.

Their usefulness depends a lot on rock type. They are great in columnar basalt. It’s hard to find placements in granite. There can be a lot of placements in desert sand stone but I would never want to fall on one. They need smoothe parallel cracks and strong rock. 

Finicky and fiddly, yes. But I maintain that they are not all that dissimilar from say, very small nuts (read: 2, 3 RPs and brass offsets), in terms of skill required to be able to place them reliably. I have a feeling rock type plays a big part as others have mentioned. I'd guess ~80% of my ballnut placements have been in RR or Eldo type sandstone while ~80% of my climbing days are granite and desert sandstone and are ballnut free.

apoet wrote: Blue is BY FAR the most useful size in my experience, followed by red. I'm surprised there are differing opinions on this matter :)

I concur.  The blue fits where nothing else can.

I use them quite a lot and I’ve found they get used about this often:
#1 70%
#2 20%
#3 10%

I’ve fallen on the #1 many times and it can be quite solid. I rarely place the #3 for some reason. Usually I can find a spot slightly larger just to plug a black alien or at least slot a brass offset. 

I have used the #2 far, far more than the 1 or 3. I am glad a don't own any larger than the 3, and kinda wish I had bought a second 2 instead. The rock I spend the most time on now tends to protect well with small cams, so 1 & 2 fill in below the cam range. When I climbed more basalt (and didn't have any ball nuts) I think I would have preferred placing the larger ball nuts compared to small cams, because many basalt "splitter" tips cracks are really bumpy, making for finicky micro cams, but still too parallel for nuts. A ball nut could take advantage of the wavy bumps, whereas a cam placed without precision could leave one or two lobes not even engaged.

i have found the larger ones to be useful in those poddy thin desert cracks where small cams just open up after you whittle them in there, but you cant really get a decent stopper placement.  same with similar weird basalt/andesite cracks.  i dont use the larger ones too often though.

i use the 2 and 3 a lot though. i took a pretty good lob onto a 2 in navajo sandstone a while back and it held up better than my underwear did....

Evan Wisheropp wrote: I use them quite a lot and I’ve found they get used about this often:
#1 70%
#2 20%
#3 10%

I’ve fallen on the #1 many times and it can be quite solid. I rarely place the #3 for some reason. Usually I can find a spot slightly larger just to plug a black alien or at least slot a brass offset. 

Rock type? Free or aid? If free, how many times have you fallen on a #1? And what was the result?