Am I ready to lead adventure style trad.

Matt Himmelstein wrote: I was on a dive boat solo a few years back and didn't want to partner up with someone I didn't know, so I asked the divemaster if I could dive solo, he said yes.  Then he announced to the boat that anyone who wanted to dive solo could do so if they let him know, but if anyone had any doubts if they were ready to dive solo, they weren't.

Your post falls into that category.  If you doubt you are ready, you are not ready.  Tat doesn't mean you have to be overconfident.  You can worry about stuff and over-plan, but if you are not 100% sure that you can and your partner are each able to handle the risks and responsibilities of adventure climbing, then you are 100% not ready.

I'd look at it differently.  The fact that the OP had doubts and was interested in advice strikes me as healthy and rational.  If he is 100% sure he can handle everything, he'd be deluding himself.

not sure if other folks have mentioned this or not, but a couple areas that i see new climbers get themselves in trouble:

1) learn to keep your leg from getting wrapped up in the rope as you climb. you want to consistently keep out of this situation.  when i bring this up to people they usually say "well, it isn't a big deal because i knew i wouldn't fall there".  my response is if you can't do this on easy climbing you will never be able to do it when the shit is hitting the fan.  always be practicing this - literally every move of every pitch.  you want this to become a completely ingrained habit.

2) learn to climb as "equalized" and "light" as possible.  i see a lot of beginners just grabbing the shit out of holds and yanking like there is no tomorrow. on adventure routes the risk of a hold breaking is very real, so you don't want to be totally sold out to a hold unless it is necessary and you have adequate protection. sometimes this may mean doing a move or two in a less efficient manner to mitigate the risk.

3) light is right is probably wrong for a beginner.  most routes are going to take you a lot longer than you think, so bring some food, water, headlamp, and a bit of clothing.  you don't want to bring the entire kitchen sink with you, but you also don't want to get pinned down on a ledge overnight in october wearing shorts and a tank top.  learn to review weather forecasts and be realistic about whether it is a good idea to go for it.

4) start with small objectives and work your way up.  learn how to plan for a route (this is another key area that i see beginners struggle with).  learn how to look back and objectively assess how the route went (another area i see beginners struggle with, often laughing about how everything is awesome - despite the fact that they got lucky while epicing).  in general you will also have more fun doing fairly well on a right-sized objective than repeatedly getting the shit kicked out of you and leaving half your rack trying to bail.

my $.02

Matt Himmelstein wrote: I was on a dive boat solo a few years back and didn't want to partner up with someone I didn't know, so I asked the divemaster if I could dive solo, he said yes.  Then he announced to the boat that anyone who wanted to dive solo could do so if they let him know, but if anyone had any doubts if they were ready to dive solo, they weren't.

Your post falls into that category.  If you doubt you are ready, you are not ready.  Tat doesn't mean you have to be overconfident.  You can worry about stuff and over-plan, but if you are not 100% sure that you can and your partner are each able to handle the risks and responsibilities of adventure climbing, then you are 100% not ready.

Confidence is not the problem.  The problem is what is the confidence based on?  Is it evidence based?  ie. I've done a bunch of 3 pitch routes and done fine. I move at about 1 hour/pitch. Then it might be reasonable to assume I can do a 5 pitch climb in 5 hours.

I’ll chime in here. I’ve climbed a lot in Sequoia/Kings Canyon (worked there 2 summers). The style in SEKI is old-school, sandbagged, runout trad climbing on mostly granite-dome style features. Expect most routes to be fairly unclimbed for the most part, meaning some vegetation and/or dirt in cracks, and maybe loose rock. Unless you are climbing the few popular routes in the area (Duet Chimney rock spire, S face of Charlotte dome etc), expect routes to be the way described above. Not terrible, but a little less “clean” than well-trafficked areas. Also expect most fixed gear and bolts on older routes to be not so great. Quite a few 1/4” button heads on some of those domes.

Furthermore, none of these areas are even close to “roadside crag” status, meaning you will almost surely be the only climbers there most of the time. This means you need to be self sufficient, know some basic self rescue and make good decisions to keep yourself safe. Working there 2 summers I’ve only seen one other team of climbers my whole time.

All that being said, SEKI Climbing is some of the most fun, rewarding climbing I’ve done. Quality rock, no crowds and endless opportunity for exploration make it a very special place, but maybe not the best for a new trad leader.

If you’re working there next summer, i’d recommend looking at sekiclimbing.com for route info. If you want some “cragging” eque areas, I made the “Cedar Grove Mini-guide” on the SEKIclimbing site for all the single pitch climbs down there as well.

Routes I’d recommend to get used to the area:
Regular Route 5.6 on Little Baldy
Duet 5.8+ Chimney Rocks
South Face of Moro Rock 5.8 (terrible approach, only way out is up, but a GREAT climb)
Off-Ramp 5.7 on Moro Rock
There’s a cool 5.9 slab bolted on Buena Vista
Buck Rock has the most “sport cragging”

Ask any questions you may have, SEKI is rad!

Stagg54 Taggart wrote:
Confidence is not the problem.  The problem is what is the confidence based on?  Is it evidence based?  ie. I've done a bunch of 3 pitch routes and done fine. I move at about 1 hour/pitch. Then it might be reasonable to assume I can do a 5 pitch climb in 5 hours.

My response was more in general, but specifically to the OP, no he is not ready to lead adventure style for the exact reasons that he listed as concerns.  Which gets to my point, in that he wasn't sure he was ready, so he isn't ready.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

My response was more in general, but specifically to the OP, no he is not ready to lead adventure style for the exact reasons that he listed as concerns.  Which gets to my point, in that he wasn't sure he was ready, so he isn't ready.

Am I the only one who EVERY SINGLE TIME I get to the base of a cliff has a moment of thinking there's no WAY I'm ready for this!?!? WTF am I doing? Why am I here? Etc.

And then I start climbing and it's all good. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

Am I the only one who EVERY SINGLE TIME I get to the base of a cliff has a moment of thinking there's no WAY I'm ready for this!?!? WTF am I doing? Why am I here? Etc.

And then I start climbing and it's all good. 

#Performanceaxietyisarealthing

Señor Arroz wrote:

Am I the only one who EVERY SINGLE TIME I get to the base of a cliff has a moment of thinking there's no WAY I'm ready for this!?!? WTF am I doing? Why am I here? Etc.

And then I start climbing and it's all good. 

Ok seriously you are now my friend. I bitch about lack of warm up for the entire first pitch but by the time my second gets to the belay I'm ready to fire off.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Am I the only one who EVERY SINGLE TIME I get to the base of a cliff has a moment of thinking there's no WAY I'm ready for this!?!? WTF am I doing? Why am I here? Etc.

And then I start climbing and it's all good. 

I wouldn't say every time, but I've definitely had those moments.  I would say if you don't have those occasionally you aren't pushing yourself very hard.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Am I the only one who EVERY SINGLE TIME I get to the base of a cliff has a moment of thinking there's no WAY I'm ready for this!?!? WTF am I doing? Why am I here? Etc.

And then I start climbing and it's all good. 

haha.  i have a friend who picks a route almost every year for us to do.  so, for about 9 months i wake up almost every night freaking out and thinking "what the f@$* am i getting myself into, i need to call her and tell her no freaking way".  we always end up  doing the route and it always goes pretty well, but for some reason i never feel completely ready for it.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Am I the only one who EVERY SINGLE TIME I get to the base of a cliff has a moment of thinking there's no WAY I'm ready for this!?!? WTF am I doing? Why am I here? Etc.

And then I start climbing and it's all good. 

Those thoughts don't crop up for me until I hit the crux.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

Those thoughts don't crop up for me until I hit the crux.

+1

Bill Lawry wrote:

+1

Anyway, if we get those feelings for ourselves, how much harder to decide for someone else they are ready.

For the OP, it is not hard to say that he is not ready:

My concerns

• Lack of knowledge of alternate systems for belaying and building anchors
• lack of experience with complicated rappelling
• Lack of experience navigating routes that "wander"

Just a note, what you're looking to do is just trad climbing; adventure climbing would be more like trad climbing long, remote multipitch routes in places like Patagonia, Baffin Island, or the Trango Valley in Pakistan.

hmm.... you are already leading. Keep it up. 

I'm mostly bumping this thread 'cause I'd like to meet you once you move out here.  If you want, the best way to reach me is through the "contact" tab on SEKIclimbing.com

I would add that you're probably just as (or more) likely to end up in a dangerous situation climbing established routes in SEKI as you are exploring FAs.  Keep that in mind if you jump on a bolted route that you're not familiar with, the bolts are often old and spread out.

As for your original question, which has been pretty thoughtfully answered by others, I'd say you'd want to:

-Learn to place bolts (it's not too complicated, watch youtube or something)
-Be comfortable and willing to bail (usually not too complicated if you just bring some bail gear/webbing and know how to retrieve a stuck rope)
-Enjoy suffering and screwing around on the side of the rock more than actually climbing
-Be able to judge rock quality
-Enjoy hiking
-Finding really strong partners to rope-gun is a plus!

In reality, if you have the basic concept of climbing down and have enough common sense to tell if something is safe then all of the practice will just make you faster and more efficient.  The tricks you learn usually make things faster, not necessarily safer.  If you can do the routes you listed as your starting point out here then I'd say go for it.

*Full Disclosure:  I'm writing this from a wheelchair due to some "adventure style trad."

What's your new job in the park?! I'm jealous.

Healyje, you don't have to freeze your balls off to have an adventure :)

Edit to add: I assumed by "adventure style trad" you meant exploring new routes.  If you simply meant climbing long, back country trad routes then my previous post doesn't necessarily apply.  If that's what you meant then just go climb them and find out (probably not with your fiance if you want to stay together)

Señor Arroz wrote:

Am I the only one who EVERY SINGLE TIME I get to the base of a cliff has a moment of thinking there's no WAY I'm ready for this!?!? WTF am I doing? Why am I here? Etc.

And then I start climbing and it's all good. 

OMG... just wait til one day you have the dry heaves, all the while crying, wondering if you will ever get down...

Are we not looking for adventure?

limpingcrab wrote: In reality, if you have the basic concept of climbing down and have enough common sense to tell if something is safe then all of the practice will just make you faster and more efficient.  The tricks you learn usually make things faster, not necessarily safer.

True, though in many cases faster is safer.  This is doubly so if no contingency escape is planned for.  (Which is hardly necessary for single pitch or busy crags with easy access.)

One local climb near me seems to attract the most rescues because it is a 900foot 5.10 that is fully bolted, a classic with few other bolted climbs of this length and grade in the area.  It attracts the gym climbers who go out expecting to just cruise up it and take photos for instabook and facegram.  They end up stuck on the wall as night comes in with no way to escape and call emergency for rescue because they are now cold hungry and tired.

"never try, never know"