Which DSLR camera?

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

A $2,200 full frame mirrorless as a first camera?

I would not even recommend the A7ii, with is $1,000 right now with the kits lens (which happens to be what I am transitioning to from my Canon dSLR) for a beginner.  I read that the a7ii was too slow for sports but I tested it out and it is perfectly fine for shooting long sequences of stills as jpegs for sports like climbing.  You may have an issue with college and pro football and basketball, but I guarantee it is more than enough for anyone shooting climbing or youth sports when paired with the right lenses, ant it is half the price.

I think you are talking about the old a7ii while I was talking about the new a7iii. It is a bit pricy but preforms quite well. I am very happy with mine even though it does have a bigger price tag I believe it is worth the money but to each their own. Although nice equipment is helpful, it really is the photographer that makes or breaks the situation.

Dyllon W. wrote:

I think you are talking about the old a7ii while I was talking about the new a7iii. It is a bit pricy but preforms quite well. I am very happy with mine even though it does have a bigger price tag I believe it is worth the money but to each their own. Although nice equipment is helpful, it really is the photographer that makes or breaks the situation.

That is exactly what I am talking about.  No need to spend north of $2,000 on a full frame mirrorless.  The $1,000 a7ii is a lovely performer, but even that is way more advanced than what the OP needs.

If I were shooting action sports, or made my living from photography and needed the best in low light, I would spend the $ to get the better camera, but this guy is looking for recommendations to just get into photography.  He is way better off with the a6000, one of the competing mirrorless units, or an entry level dSLR, though my recommendation is firmly for a mirrorless camera.

Chris Johnson wrote:

Ska,

I picked up an 80D a few months ago to replace the ancient XTI my dad gave me when I moved away. Any recommendations on how to carry it climbing (and skiing if you do that too)? 

That's easy. Bring your camera and no skis or bring your skis and no camera. The same applies to climbing.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

That is exactly what I am talking about.  No need to spend north of $2,000 on a full frame mirrorless.  The $1,000 a7ii is a lovely performer, but even that is way more advanced than what the OP needs.

If I were shooting action sports, or made my living from photography and needed the best in low light, I would spend the $ to get the better camera, but this guy is looking for recommendations to just get into photography.  He is way better off with the a6000, one of the competing mirrorless units, or an entry level dSLR, though my recommendation is firmly for a mirrorless camera.

Mirrorless is definitely best for climbing for sure. To each their own for the model lol

Just starting out=mirrorless. Have some lenses and are already invested, might be worth sticking with DSLR for the time being, until the inevitable.

Check out the RX100 VA - might change ur mind. It's an incredible camera...

MisterSir wrote:

Why's that?

Bigger, heavier, and most importantly it costs more $$ for "features" that a beginner doesn't need, especially when compared to the other deals I was listing.

I went through this exact same process a few years back and ended up buying a Sony RX100 Mk3. I got it for ~$250 used and I'm sure they're even cheaper now.

My rationale:

1) It's mirrorless with an attached lens. This allows it to be ultra-compact and light. At first I was skeptical... I'd been borrowing my friends' DSLRs for years and the Rx100 definitely looked closer to a point and shoot "dad camera" than a professional DSLR. It won't give you an ego boost, but it'll get you quality photos.

2) Key point: the Rx100 is small enough that I'll actually bring it with me. You'll eventually find how much you're willing to suffer for a nice photo, but when one of my friends had lent me her Rebel T6 for an entire summer I took it out climbing... twice. And both times were to the crag. There was no way in hell I was bringing an entire extra case up with me on the Grand Teton, and so all of my favorite photos of the year were taken on my phone...

3) The Rx100 is surprisingly good in low light (works for star photography) and has plenty of resolution for my purposes. I've stitched together some great panoramas that have printed wonderfully at 16 x 48 (at least to my amateur eye).

4) It's so tiny that I literally forget that I have it with me... it lives in my backpack in a soft leather case and I find myself pulling over on my bike rides and walks in my everyday life to take photos - I've taken hundreds of pictures that I never would've otherwise. Realistically, are you the kind of person who will carry a separate case around with them everywhere? I'm not.

The downside is that the settings are harder to adjust on the fly, and obviously you won't be shooting super buttery bokeh portrait shots. I absolutely miss playing around with a fixed 50mm or being able to zoom out to 200mm if I'm tied into a rope, but the Rx100 was cheap and I always have the option to buy a second, nicer camera to play with closer to home.

But I'll point out once more that the difference is perception/ego is definitely tangible (and funny) - when I showed up to a climbing comp with my friend's T6, everyone (including sponsors) were asking me if I was a professional photographer. I showed up the next year with my Rx100 and nobody paid me any attention whatsoever... even though my photos turned out better despite having a 'lesser camera' (skills > equipment).

IF you never plan on buying lenses or only keeping the kit lens attached (and never changing) then the RX100 (any model) is your best option. It has as good of optics as most kit lenses and is a fraction of the size with nearly all the same features. I have taken long exposure milky way shots and people taking 25 ft falls with it and both look like they could have came from a full frame camera.

However, if you plan on changing your lenses or upgrading from the kit lens, then I would look into the A6000 series, or even a Nex-7

Even jimmy chin takes shots on his iPhone, if all you want is a point and click... then why buy a camera at all.

I highly recommend the Nikon D5500! I've got it and it's AWESOME for the price. I also purchased a great video series by Michael the Maven photography on how to operate the Nikon D5500 camera settings and a crash course on photography. If you're brand new to photography (If you don't know about exposure composing of shutter speed, f-stop/aperture size and ISO) then you should definitely check out this site. He may have your camera you choose to buy listed in his video series for you to become familiar with. Michael the Maven Photography lessons Check it out! If you purchase a Nikon D5500, I can send you the videos I have for a few bucks. 

Ska Ggs wrote: Even jimmy chin takes shots on his iPhone, if all you want is a point and click... then why buy a camera at all.

High end point and shoots are not even in the same discussion as iPhone shots, especially when printing shots. iPhones are amazing for what they are and they can produce some cool images for instagram and facebook, especially when taking shots of a still object with good day light, however, most of the time climbers do not have a still subject or good light (read: they are in shade). My guess is that less than 1% of the shots you see of Jimmy Chins are with an iPhone. I know previously he shot with a Nex-7 and now shoots with Canon.

My suggestion, is: if they are just doing casual photography then an iPhone is their best option, for sure. Since they are posting on here about getting more into photography and wanting a better option I think mirrorless or high end point and shoots are a good option FWIW

MisterSir wrote:

iPhones are amazing for what they are

Get a Pixel phone

stolo wrote:

Get a Pixel phone

If all you're doing is instagram and FB small scale, low res usage, this works, but if you try blowing up a phone picture (any phone picture) you'll be very sad.

i have a d3200 and i kind of regret buying it as im thinking about going 4k and now all i have are nikon lenses..
its decent for taking pictures and learning how to use a DSLR,  but trash for video
and its autofocus is terrible

Cheaper DSLR usually have garbage auto focus,  and frankly for new camera users:  your going to get a lot of out of focus shots unless u get good at manual focus

I would instead buy an all in one camera with good auto focus and zoom.  no fiddling with different lenses and perfect for wildlife zoom shots and action point and click
Cannon powershot sx530 is $189 on ebay right now for example

if i had the money a good 4k video setup would be:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4
18mm lens for wide angle action style shots with aperture set high for maximum focal range,  super easy to use
200mm or 300mm telephoto with highest aperture and zoom range i could afford as well as vibration reduction without breaking the bank

with this setup you could setup timelaps videos from afar with the 300mm and get amazingly sharp pictures of a multipitch climb from beginning to end
get the most stunning 4k video panoramic shots
vlog style action videos where ur not faffing with the focus
shoot wildlife from afar with amazing sharpness

unfortunately you would need powerful enough software/hardware to edit 4k as well..

My suggestion, is: if they are just doing casual photography then an iPhone is their best option, for sure. Since they are posting on here about getting more into photography and wanting a better option I think mirrorless or high end point and shoots are a good option FWIW

I'm arguing against investing in a mirror-less/Point and shoot BC if you want to get into photography, buy something that will force you to learn f-stop, shutterspeed, ISO sensitivity.... otherwise your wasting money on something your iphone can do. From what it sounds like, no one is producing prints and putting together a portfolio ... this is for the instagram/social media accounts

John Clark wrote:

If all you're doing is instagram and FB small scale, low res usage, this works, but if you try blowing up a phone picture (any phone picture) you'll be very sad.

Ive printed a 17x22 copy of an iphone shot ... iphones7 at 12 MP can print 300dpi a solid 15x10 inch photo. What amateur is printing 24x36" work anyway?

Ska Ggs wrote:

I'm arguing against investing in a mirror-less/Point and shoot BC if you want to get into photography, buy something that will force you to learn f-stop, shutterspeed, ISO sensitivity.... otherwise your wasting money on something your iphone can do. From what it sounds like, no one is producing prints and putting together a portfolio ... this is for the instagram/social media accounts

The better point&shoots do allow full manual operation. I love my Panasonic DMC-LX100 for that reason, and it's become my favorite travel camera because it is so compact. The only thing it lacks is a long zoom. I also have a Nikon DSLR with some decent glass, but can't see myself hauling that up climbing.

Ska Ggs wrote:

Ive printed a 17x22 copy of an iphone shot ... iphones7 at 12 MP can print 300dpi a solid 15x10 inch photo. What amateur is printing 24x36" work anyway?

Huh, I guess they must have tidied up the issue with smaller sensors

I would recommend an a6000 since it sounds like you mostly want to do photos. It's small, cheap and takes really good photos for an APS-C sensor. Plus that sensor will give you the extra reach due to 1.6x crop factor of aps-c. I may recommend the a6000 w/ the 18-105 f/4 to get essentially a 27-170ish in one lens, and it's amazing quality. Plus you wouldn't have to swap a lens if you want to go more telephoto. a6000 also does good 1080 video, and you can always upgrade to a6300/65000 if you want to go deeper into video in the future. Can get an a6000 and 18-105 for under a thousand if you look on the used market.

I'd also recommend figuring out a good carrying system, no matter what camera you get, whether it be in your backpack or a sling pack, don't underestimate how important it is to make as little resistance as possible in terms of taking the camera outside. Having an space efficient and easy to pack carrying system will have you taking the camera out more and getting more shots of more "involved" activities or adventures.

Cheers and happy shooting