New and experienced climbers over 50 #4

I'll second the bit about protein. At one point I changed my diet, and a couple months later it became clear that my fingers were growing steadily depressingly weaker. Routes that I did in the past felt impossible, my fingers unable to hang on. After waiting a few weeks to make sure it wasn't just a cold or other brief interruption, I tried taking 25g of whey isolate a day, and a couple weeks later things had dramatically improved. Since then I've tried adding even more, but it wasn't clear that it was any better, so generally I keep it at 25g per day (in addition to the protein I get from my normal food).

John Barritt wrote:

Out of curiosity, do you remember the climbing you've done outdoors?

The thing about the gym is it all looks (and smells) the same.

Try attaching a mnemonic device to a climb. As you make each move put a word from song lyrics with it. Or even the music.

In-the-sun-shine-of-your-love
Gets you thru seven movements. Then you stand on the floor, look up and run it through your head.

Thank you, John.  Will try this.  Perhaps I am taking it too hard... but it was a surprise discovery in climbing (and aging?)  Ryan, bless his heart, is ever-patient with me, and constantly encouraging.  But he obviously smelt a weakness, and went in for the kill    .  I'm glad he did.  I had been worrying about my memory for some time.  When he saw me get flustered, he suggested "How about we start with eliminating all the holds you know you DIDN'T touch."  That helped.  As long as he's gentle, I don't mind continuing the memory game...  I can see where it would really help in nailing bouldering problems.

Watching Ondra rehearse in his head the moves up Silence was really something to watch--for him, eyes closed visualization was how he got it all to body language.  Maybe a song will work better for me than straight commitment to memory.   I'll report back... 

John Barritt wrote:

Out of curiosity, do you remember the climbing you've done outdoors?

This is a great point. I can remember, down to individual holds and jams, every inch of certain outdoor climbs. Because they were that exciting and interesting.

Even the great gym climbs fade into obscurity pretty quick. And part of it is because they all look the same: Bubblegum colors on a white wall. 

Lori Milas wrote:

Thank you, John.  Will try this.  Perhaps I am taking it too hard... but it was a surprise discovery in climbing (and aging?)  Ryan, bless his heart, is ever-patient with me, and constantly encouraging.  But he obviously smelt a weakness, and went in for the kill    .  I'm glad he did.  I had been worrying about my memory for some time. 

I'd try to bear in mind that there are different kinds of memory. For me, climbing a climb the 2nd or 3rd time is like hearing a classic rock song and remembering the lyrics JUST as that verse comes up. You couldn't pay  me a million dollars to write down Stairway to Heaven word for word. But every word pops into my head perfectly as it come on the radio. When I climb things my memory unfolds just as I'm approaching things and need the recall. 

Jeff.... love the tool on the belt! Things DO change!

Speaking of protein.... over my long life I have known several vegans who give that up so they can be strong and healthy again.that seems to happen in the late 40’s 50’s....

I can still recall Jimi Hendrix telling us.... “this is new... Machine Gun- Mitch!”
But don’t ask me how many bolts I placed on x climb.

We remember the important stuff.

I’m feeling so much better after your responses. Thank you!

Not related, but now kinda...my doctor gave me a book on Alzheimer’s last week. Not because I have it, but because brain health follows body health...and it also seems to run many times higher in diabetics. It’s a great book that outlines a protocol for protecting the brain from Alzheimer’s  and reversing dementia if you have it.

One of the chapters is on brain games, especially through an online company like Luminosity. The rest are mostly on specific lifestyle, diet, supplements and exercise. I already do most of the recommendations  but I’d like to add brain games now. Of course memorizing the climbing wall will do in a pinch.     If anyone interested in this book or has a family member in need...let me know.

The kid in the candy store.

It always amazes me the difference between gym climbing and outdoor climbing, not only ambiance, but in holds.  I feel the gym challenges my strength more than outdoors.  I can usually find a different way of doing something outdoors, but in a gym, it is what it is.  At least I will get to work on some of my weakness, ok quit laughing, I know I am pretty weak, maybe I should say I will improve my strengths.    One of the good things about this gym is that almost all the routes are overhung to some degree.  

After climbing a lot with my own supple ropes gym ropes seem extremely stiff.  I think they may be chalk packed.

So I need some help with gym etiquette.  As you can see the routes here are packed pretty close together.  There were a couple of young ladies working a 10c next to a 5.8 we wanted to climb. I walked up to them and asked if they minded us climbing the black 5.8 next to them, they looked at me like in a manner that made me feel I had conducted a social error. Then stated they were climbing he blue 10c.  Ok.  I hate it when someone won't/can't answer the question asked.  I am a curmudgeon what do you expect. The two routes did overlap with a couple of holds next to each other, the reason for the question, so we waited until the other climber was clear of the overlap area and then began Barb Climbed. They finished, we finished, swapped belayers.  The other young lady started before I did and had reached a difficult portion she was struggling with, I started up, she was resting and figuring when I caught up to her, you guessed it, at the merge point. Rather than get in her space I had Barb Lower me.  

One of the things that bothers me when I go to a city is folks don't acknowledge the existence of other folks.   I guess it's just not possible because of the huge number of people packed in a little area, does this carry over into the climbing gym as well.  I have struck up good conversations with lots of people in gyms before, have things changed, or am I just being grumpy.

Oh, back to the original gym etiquette question:  Take in mind I would never do anything unsafe like step on someone or fall on them, and I protect myself from same.  With that in mind, how do you tell if the routes are too close together, should you talk to the people next to you or just ignore them and climb?  Generally speaking of course; I know there are lots of situations that will be slightly different.  

Second etiquette question: The same girls, second climber really struggling, hanging, resting, she had hooked her finger through a bolt, full finger clip.  I cringed but held my tongue, after all they must be better climbers than me because they were on a 10c, plus she was hanging on the rope so not much chance of falling unless her belayer slips.  It'll be ok, I can be here because I want to improve my strength over the winter.

 

Dallas, I see you're back in SLC! I recognize that wall. What a weird reaction you encountered. I would have asked them too. As to the finger-through-the-bolt thing, given the odd reaction you already got earlier, I probably would have held my tongue too.

Let's climb together soon!

Dallas - you are fine. The mistake you are making is assuming climbing harder grades than you = more knowledge than you. Nope. Super gumby move grabbing a hanger - good way to get seriously hurt (even on TR). I frequently let others know my intentions if I’m climbing next to them if the routes overlap - I might say why (Hey - looks like these routes overlap a bit - will it bug you if I jump on this one?). They probably didn’t even notice the routes overlapped. If both climbers are on TR, I don’t worry about it too much - more of an issue if there’s a chance of a lead fall onto someone else’s head. You could have climbed through without any worry, especially if she was hanging. Your etiquette was fine. Sounds like their’s needed some work.

I can add - I hate the gym. Although I climb there a lot. Too many people. Too much attitude. Too much stupidity going on. Now I sound like a curmudgeon! 

The women in question don't sound like very nice people.

That said, if routes overlap and we're second on the scene, we either wait or go somewhere else---usually the latter.  On the other hand, if someone comes up and asks about doing a route that overlaps ours, I'll say sure, just don't get tangled up with us, and hope that they can make good on that.

The finger through the bolt is another matter.  It has nothing to do with etiquette; it's effin' dangerous.  I had the misfortune of being around many years ago when a woman (following) put her finger through the eye of a piton and fell, amputating her finger.  All kinds of less catastrophic but still horrific injuries are possible. and you can find awful images on the internet if your stomach needs churning.  The situation would dictate the moment to alert the uncharitable pair, but someone ought to let them know.

ErikaNW wrote: Dallas - you are fine. The mistake you are making is assuming climbing harder grades than you = more knowledge than you. Nope. Super gumby move grabbing a hanger - good way to get seriously hurt (even on TR). I frequently let others know my intentions if I’m climbing next to them if the routes overlap - I might say why (Hey - looks like these routes overlap a bit - will it bug you if I jump on this one?). They probably didn’t even notice the routes overlapped. If both climbers are on TR, I don’t worry about it too much - more of an issue if there’s a chance of a lead fall onto someone else’s head. You could have climbed through without any worry, especially if she was hanging. Your etiquette was fine. Sounds like their’s needed some work.

I can add - I hate the gym. Although I climb there a lot. Too many people. Too much attitude. Too much stupidity going on. Now I sound like a curmudgeon! 

“  I hate the gym. Although I climb there a lot.” 

 I as well dislike the Gym as well. So I never go. 

No ice for me! Nice photo though.

It’s more of a time thing - I can get a decent workout in the gym in a couple hours. But I don’t really enjoy it (hate might have been a little strong). I’m in a bad mood today. 

Cheer up young lady It can’t be that bad today lol all shall be well for you forever!

Thanks guys (Midwest term that is not gender specific).  I may come off as a little corny at times but I don't ever want to be an asshole.  I have talked with many people on routes near, inside and out, and it is very rare that I get this type of reaction.  I get nervous in crowded conditions, just got back from Houston were there are too many people.  I suspect Jeffrey feels the same, I feel much better in the wilderness with maybe one other person around.  

Elisa, pm sent.

Erika, thanks for the kind words.  I know that some people don't think I know what I am doing simply because I am not very strong, doesn't make me stupid. Just means that it is difficult for me to accomplish .8+ climbs.  I love to teach and share my knowledge and experiences. I also know it is not always welcome. So I don't push. I recognized the potential for injury and attempted to open a dialog about it, you are probably much more adapt at the social interaction than I am, but I made the effort. I also insured that I was not the one to cause harm. And yes, I have been stepped on and swung into in a gym. I don't mind, events occur, I just try hard not to be the one that does it.

We are committed to climbing in the gym so that next summer when we are out and about we are stronger climbers.  It is interesting to get 5-6 routes accomplished in the less than two hours, that many routes outside would be an all day sucker for us.  

Barbara found a hidden injury from her fall. This is the first time we have done any serious climbing since then.  Pretty sure it will end up being a torn ligament in her left shoulder.  It only affects her during certain movements, oh yeah, climbing moves.  It's really a precise injury, she has full range of motion except for this one thing. To simulate, bring your arm up chest high, bend your elbow to ninety degrees, at chest level move it as far out as possible, not raise your elbow.  She gets a sharp pain.  She can work around it and it doesn't effect her day to day, just climbing.  We will get it checked out.  

Rgold, gym life is fairly foreign to me.  I notice everyone tends to stick to small groups which is ok, they are there with their friends and we are strangers.  I am sure that over time we will meet more people and become sociable.  Do you have any advice for me as far as "don't ever do this in a gym".  I already know the one about not picking your nose and then climbing in the gym rope.

Ice? When I bought our first ropes one of them was rated for ice climbing, we never used it.  Funny, we will go skiing and snowshoeing in freezing weather but somehow think ice climbing is too cold. I just donated that rope to the school teacher up in Bellingham that was asking for old equipment.  

I really felt like saying "Please don't do that miss!" when I saw the girl with her finger through bolt. I thought about going to one of the staff and mentioning it, but figured they would think I was just an old busy body.  I am a true believer in personal responsibility.  I am responsible for my actions, even the foolish ones.  But if I ever see her again doing the same thing I will attempt a dialogue, worst that will happen is she will think me a curmudgeon.

Dallas R wrote: Thanks guys (Midwest term that is not gender specific).  I may come off as a little corny at times but I don't ever want to be an asshole.  I have talked with many people on routes near, inside and out, and it is very rare that I get this type of reaction.  I get nervous in crowded conditions, just got back from Houston were there are too many people.  I suspect Jeffrey feels the same, I feel much better in the wilderness with maybe one other person around.  

Dallas, your posts are always so heartwarming and real.  I'm so glad you take the time to share what you do, and sorry you are feeling a bit overwhelmed with the new gym.  Selfishly, what you have written about your feelings helped validate some of the strong feelings I had and have at my climbing gym.  There have been times I sat alone in my car, looking at all the Beamers parked in the lot and very young, fit climbers heading in, and just cried. I didn't want to be any part of the social scene indoors, nor climb up and down colored walls.  I desperately missed the rock.   

Do you think we are a group of loners?  Or perhaps, at least some of the time need to enjoy solitary pursuits?  Climbing (outdoors) is that strange blend of being intimately with someone, bonding in a deep way with your partner, at the same time when you step onto the rock, it is a personal challenge.  

But when in Rome...  I hope you are able to really enjoy what your climbing gym can offer.  One thing you might like is watching and cheering on the kids if you have a bouldering room.  This weekend bouldering competitions are being held at Pipeworks (my gym) and I will be there, and volunteer if they need help.  I love watching kids try out their stuff, manage heroic feats, beam with pride... and I love supporting them with enthusiasm and taking pictures for them. I have adopted a few of these kids as a kind of extended family... but also, some are so willing to also teach!  I see at least one of my kids in these young people... and so I feel tender towards them.  You and Barb have fostered (?) kids before you headed out on your grand adventure... you may find a few who would cherish what you can give now.

And out of the population of climbers there, new friends will emerge as the dust settles.  I don't know how it took me so long to see it at my gym... but there are many, many older climbers who just come to do their thing and you will meet them before long.    

If that little bit of ageism creeps in, remember that we are a formidable group here... not to be messed with.  There is more skill, wisdom, talent and chutzpah between you and Barb than any younger folk could possibly have.  

 

Dallas R wrote:

• Barbara found a hidden injury from her fall. This is the first time we have done any serious climbing since then.  Pretty sure it will end up being a torn ligament in her left shoulder.  It only affects her during certain movements, oh yeah, climbing moves.  It's really a precise injury, she has full range of motion except for this one thing. To simulate, bring your arm up chest high, bend your elbow to ninety degrees, at chest level move it as far out as possible, not raise your elbow.  She gets a sharp pain.  She can work around it and it doesn't effect her day to day, just climbing.  We will get it checked out. 

I had a similar pain after a bad bike crash many years ago. It ended up that I tore my labrum. I had to have surgery, but I have heard that if the tear is not too bad PT can stay off surgery. I lost a lot of skin in my bike crash and it took a while for me to realize that the pain was more than bruising. Hopefully hers is not as bad of a tear if that's what it is. Hope she mends quickly.

So much hate for gyms in this thread! I love climbing gyms. With a full time job, a nonclimbing spouse, and nonclimbing kids, I have very few opportunities to climb outside. Being able to spend a couple hours getting a good workout while having fun climbing is fantastic. Plus new routes almost every week! And climbing year round rain or shine! Sure, the routes are plastic and I'm not outside, but overall I'm always happy to be there.

Gonna be a multi pitch kinda day headed up the mountain shortly!

Dallas R wrote: 
I really felt like saying "Please don't do that miss!" when I saw the girl with her finger through bolt. I thought about going to one of the staff and mentioning it, but figured they would think I was just an old busy body.  I am a true believer in personal responsibility.  I am responsible for my actions, even the foolish ones.  But if I ever see her again doing the same thing I will attempt a dialogue, worst that will happen is she will think me a curmudgeon.

I was climbing outdoors a while ago and saw two younger women about to do something potentially very dangerous yet easily avoidable. I'm pretty sensitive about not being a mansplainer or a beta sprayer so I was hesitant to just blurt it out. Instead, I asked, "would you mind if I gave you a safety suggestion?"

They said, "Sure, of course." And they were very grateful for me pointing out what might have happened and an easy solution.

Sometimes just asking changes the whole dynamic.

Dallas R wrote: 
Ice? When I bought our first ropes one of them was rated for ice climbing, we never used it.  Funny, we will go skiing and snowshoeing in freezing weather but somehow think ice climbing is too cold. I just donated that rope to the school teacher up in Bellingham that was asking for old equipment.

Ice? I tried it a few times, but I'm definitely a warm weather climber. I'd much rather ski or snowshoe than stand in one place and freeze.

I generally avoid starting up an overlapping route unless the other climber is close to the top, but when you're both toproping, it's more a question of concentration than safety. You asked politely. Those women just sound unfriendly. I'm lucky that the folks who climb at the BRC are a pretty mixed group -- kids and dinosaurs, bicycles and Beamers, beginners and climbing gods and goddesses --  mostly very friendly.

Give Barb my wishes for a speedy total recovery.