Course providers

Hi, I have read via Google plenty of posts here discussing various course providers. I still dont feel anywhere close to making a decision. I am looking for instruction in the alpine environment, several day intensive courses. Location isn't important from a logistical standpoint. What I want to avoid is something that seems to focus on just providing an experience, but rather, the beginning of a long term learning process in skills that will progressively help me to keep pushing myself. Locally, everything is focused on sport climbing and bouldering. I want to be in the snow and mountains. So far, American Alpine Institute various Amtl courses seem good, in terms of a thorough, long progression in all aspects. Who are their competitors? Alpine Ascents at least from a website standpoint, seems highly focused on preparing people for Big Mountain objectives.... Maybe I am getting the wrong impression? Any alumni from any course they loved that could chime in? 

If you have specific learning outcomes, it'll be most effective to just hire a guide.  The courses are all pretty similar, but in any group situation you'll be hindered by the weakest member (unless that's you).

Thanks Tico. Hiring a guide may be in my future for some aspects, although simply too expensive to spend tons of time with. I have no idea where I would stand with other hopefuls on a first course. I am interested in learning everything, not at once! But a structured approach broken up over several courses that focus on learning and using technical skills. Something that isnt overwhelmed with expedition style camping and gourmet cooking, just the essentials for learning how to climb on rock, snow, and ice which can be built upon for follow up courses in subsequent years. One company really turned me off by insisting I rent EVERYTHING from them (of which they are a dealer for a particular high end clothing brand) and not even giving me the respect of discussing a realistic gear list for the area and time of year.... And they have a deposit from me, I just am not sure if they are really understanding what I want. Anyone else? 

I highly recommend this guide service. They are located next to the North Cascades National Park, which is as alpine as you can get in the lower 48. You will learn fastest if you hire a private guide and tell them exactly what you want to learn. You will also pay more for that benefit. You would probably learn more from three days on a private course than you would on a week-long group course.

https://www.ncmountainguides.com/

Ncnp is great if you like camping.  Suboptimal for ice or day trips.  

Tico wrote: Ncnp is great if you like camping.  Suboptimal for ice or day trips.  

A short course in the Boston Basin or Mt. Baker would be a great intro to alpine climbing.  In addition to climbing basics at Washington Pass or other day trips.

I disagree, if efficiency is a premium.  I appreciate your consistent fanboyness of ncmg though.  It's adorable.  Have you been guided by others though?

Tico wrote: I disagree, if efficiency is a premium.  I appreciate your consistent fanboyness of ncmg though.  It's adorable.  Have you been guided by others though?

You're right, you probably can't learn alpinism in the North Cascades National Park. Can't be done "efficiently." :)

Where was your recommendation for? I didn't see it.

Tell me more about ncnp and alpinism.

Tico wrote: Tell me more about ncnp and alpinism.

Hey Tico, rather than arguing with me, why don't you provide some specific, helpful information for the OP? You suggested hiring a guide. Where and which guide service?

If you have specific learning outcomes, it'll be most effective to just hire a guide

I don’t recommend Vertical Adventure Guides

Alpine is pretty broad. Slogging up a snow couloir is alpine. Scrambling rock ridges is alpine. A mix of rock and ice can be alpine. So knowing your objective or goal is important. I think if you want to do big glacier routes like on Rainier then North Cascades is pretty good for that and Jeff's company is solid. I kind of agree with Tico otherwise. I guide in Colorado and if someone wants me to go to the Cascades there is very little to be done in a day. It's a venue that will teach you a lot but you have to work to get to it. Whereas in CO I can have you on an alpine route with a mile hike (not a mile straight up hill with a hard to follow unmaintained trail). I like CO for intro to alpine type stuff. You've got to narrow it down though. There's a lot of skills behind the term alpine. That's why freedom of the hills is such a big book. Once you narrow it down I think the suggestions will improve and you'll be able to better find what you're looking for. 

My goals include: learning how to safely travel on glaciers, the skills necessary to BEGIN learning and practicing rock and ice climbing, how to evaluate snow/avalanche hazards... That covers alot. I am NOT looking for one course to do everything. Rather, a good start, and then proceed to other courses over time as I learn and gain experience. I am tired of the mountains being "off limits" due to lack of knowledge and skills. I want to know from those who have taken courses who they took from and why or why not it was a good experience. I know who the main players are, and have reached out to them. I am trying to get customer feedback. Certainly different companies have different teaching styles, cultures, no? And yeah, I get it about the cascades being underdeveloped and requiring long approaches.... Almost like doing a siege of mt rainier or whatever. That's less interesting to me. I come from a lightweight backpacking background, so lugging tons of shit up the mountain sounds less than ideal. I would rather spend my time and money learning than making huge approaches.

OH and Frank PS, I have seen way too many threads where you scream NC Mountain guides.... Crossing them off the list. 

There are some options if you are just starting out, for example you might want to consider joining non-profit climbing/mountaineering groups on their teaching trips depending where you live. Another way to look at this is to go by mountaineering destinations and figure out which organizations provide courses and trips.  For example in the Northeast that would be guide services and schools working in the Presidential Range or the Adirondacks (low elevation, but plenty cold in the winter, lots of ice, snow skills and winter camping). In the Pacific Northwest there are different organizations working on Mt. Rainer and the Cascades, similarly in Mt. Hood, etc.  The Pacific Northwest provides altitude and year round alpine conditions.

No matter what you will not learn everything in one trip, it is a long term, multi-year investment in learning. Select what you want to learn first depending where you will be climbing for your personal trips.  For example it does not make sense to learn glacier travel first if you live and will be climbing east of the Mississippi.

There are a lot of options, depending on where you live, how much time you have, and how much you're willing to spend.  If you live in a mountain state, then local clubs (e.g. The Mountaineers) may have instructional sessions/hikes etc. that will get you into the basics.  If you don't have local resources available, then traveling to a mountain destination and taking existing intensive courses would be the next step.  If you're really limited on time, then you could work out a 1 on 1 training session (i.e. hiring a guide).  With your goal of glacier travel as well as avalanche hazards, ice climbing, and rock climbing, no one course will work, although some in the North Cascades come close since they have glaciers, ice climbing in the summer on glaciers, and rock climbing nearby. I'd suggest looking at the course descriptions of the various guide services (I'm most familiar with American Alpine Institute, but there are others) and see if they're teaching what you want to learn.   

I took the glacier travel and crevasse rescue course, plus several avy courses, from American Alpine Institute. Although designed for a group, I found them to be informative and enjoyable, with very good instructors. The office side of the operation was always pleasant to deal with. Mt. Baker is awesome.

Subscribed.  I have the exact same questions as the OP.  Nice post and I'll be watching.